Up and Comer in the Party of Morals Allegedy Commits Rape
Submitted by redenemy on Wed, 02/07/2007 - 4:07pm.
Hattip Jill. She has a write up on the story (which I would have missed otherwise).
p.s. One of the great parts about blogs (I think) is they allow for random commenters (again, gotta go to read Jills site for this), who show up and say that "it could have happened anywhere at anytime". They remind us that this is sad because it gives "Young Republicans a black eye"... This commenter also thinks that it's "wrong insinuating that Josh should be held accountable for this horrible action". The party of responsibility folks...
again...
Submitted by redenemy on Thu, 02/08/2007 - 12:03pm.
I guess I'm again making fun of something I take very seriously, and I guess I should make it more clear. I'm incredibly bothered by the fact that something like 1 in 4 women will be sexually assaulted and other horrifying statistics. It's a massive societal issue that we continue to sweep under the carpet and treat as an "unfortunate event ". It makes me sick, and frustrated, and I have no idea what to do about it...
Moral turpitude
Submitted by raz on Thu, 02/08/2007 - 12:23pm.
much to easy. I believe we call this out and out rape. Run his ass to jail before he screws us all. Did anyone see what his church affiliation was. You never know after all he was drinking and a week or two sitting around and talking could cure him.
Maybe things are changing with these young Republicans, at least he wasn’t found with some young boys. Ha ha ha.
What does it mean that their relationship was "almost a parent-child, student-teacher thing." Does that make things right. Let's face it, the Young Republican party have adopted the morals of their leader and his house of dirty rotten liers.
what's parent-child mean
Submitted by Jill on Thu, 02/08/2007 - 12:56pm.
I read that to mean that that makes it more wrong - that she trusted him in a way a child trusts a parent or a student trusts a teacher, looked up to him, he guided her with advice etc. That he wouldn't do wrong by her and only look out for her best interests - something along those lines.
Indicted
Submitted by Jill on Wed, 02/07/2007 - 5:00pm.
Says there were efforts to keep her from prosecuting.
You totally mis-characterize
Submitted by Blonde on Blonde on Thu, 02/08/2007 - 1:17pm.
You totally mis-characterize the poster's comments. You conveniently left out the part of the sentence that preceded "wrong insinuating that Josh should be held accountable for this horrible action." The entire sentence read, "You're right in posting this but wrong insinuating that Josh should be held accountable for this horrible action." What is wrong with that? Josh Mandel had nothing to with rape.
The comment about this happening anywhere was in response to Jill saying that Cleveland area Republicans, who were not involved in the incident, should assure the world that Cleveland is a safe place. Simply making the point that Cleveland doesn't have a lock on sexual abuse.
And, most egregiously you wrongly completely distort the actual comment by writing that "They remind us that this is sad BECAUSE it gives 'Young Republicans a black eye.'" The actual comment reads, "It's an unfortunate event AND does give Young Republicans a black eye." This kind of post really undermines your credibility.
Coming from a commenter with the handle "blonde on blonde"
Submitted by Jill on Thu, 02/08/2007 - 1:29pm.
Doesn't exactly engender credibility.
Not a Bob Dylan fan, Jill?
Submitted by Blonde on Blonde on Thu, 02/08/2007 - 3:36pm.
Not a Bob Dylan fan, Jill?
Er um
Submitted by Jill on Thu, 02/08/2007 - 3:58pm.
I do like Dylan - but I definitely am not an aficianado and am unfamiliar with the reference. I promise to google it when I have a second.
Well, they'll stone you when
Submitted by JeanLR on Thu, 02/08/2007 - 4:06pm.
Well, they'll stone you when you're walking on the street
They'll stone you when you're tryin' to keep your seat
They'll stone you when you're tryin' to make a buck
Then they'll stone you and then they'll say "good luck"
But I would not feel so all alone
Everybody must get stoned
I'm more a
Submitted by Jill on Thu, 02/08/2007 - 4:23pm.
Don't think twice it's alright kind of person
correct in part (UPDATED)
Submitted by redenemy on Thu, 02/08/2007 - 4:31pm.
So you are right, I owe some appology here for thinking that Mr. Mandel was involved. I misread the post, and for some reason, jumped to the conculsion that Mandel was involved. But you will note that I never said anything about Mandel, his actions, or his involvement. As for the language, you might as well have said that it was that the young Republicans have gotten a black eye. The "it could have happened anywhere at anytime" was also calous and political. The real reason for my post was offense there wasn't for the woman, it was, "aww too bad for the party"...
p.s. I have no credibility to undermine.. you can give attacking that one ...
OWE SOME APOLOGIES....???
Submitted by Weazelusmc on Thu, 02/08/2007 - 3:52pm.
YOU’RE KIDDING ME, RIGHT? How in God's Green Earth did you get Josh Mandel out of that? I read it once and understood the first read that "Cleveland detectives have been investigating a 21-year-old woman's claim that Flory took sexual advantage of her last July 8 while the two were in town".
I have known Josh Mandel for years. We are both veteran United States Marines as well as Republicans. He is not only a friend but an honorable person. I sickens me when someone takes such a flippant attitude towards not only rape, but the decimating someone’s character because of an apparent literacy problem.
This is NOT a political issue. IT IS A CRIME, that yes, CAN HAPPEN ANYWHERE AT ANY TIME. I was out of state at the time, however, had anyone of us known that it was or had happened, I can say with complete confidence that we would have stepped in to help her in anyway possible. If this man is charged and convicted of raping this young lady, then he is a monster that deserves worse than what he is probably going to get.
So your attack on Josh Mandel and your use of a rape of a young woman to toss some political mud is out of line, shows what little, if any, moral character you are made of.
Michelle Bedy
p.s. and when Rob Lowe TAPED his sex with an underage girl at the DNC, I never even thought about "those horrible democrats" I thought, "Eeww...he needs some jail time and serious mental help". Put the blame where it belongs, with the individual who breaks the law.
SSGT
Submitted by redenemy on Thu, 02/08/2007 - 4:32pm.
You will politely notice that nowhere in my post did I accuse Mandel of rape. I said that at one point, yes, I did think that, appologized for EVEN THINKING that he was at all involved, but I never posted that I thought he did it. And I never attacked Mandel for anything. You jumped to that conclusion. I made a critique of the people that posted on Jill's blog that seemed to excuse the behavior and not see exactly what you said: "This is NOT a political issue. IT IS A CRIME". That's what the post was about, not attacking Mandel, it was about how easily people dismiss such crimes and want to hide them becuase of politics.
Exactly how did you expect
Submitted by Weazelusmc on Thu, 02/08/2007 - 4:57pm.
Exactly how did you expect people to take:
"This commenter also thinks that it's "wrong insinuating that Josh should be held accountable for this horrible action". The party of responsibility folks..."
"I misread the post, and for some reason, jumped to the conculsion that Mandel was the charged (don't know why, sloppy on my part... yada yada yada)."
Nobody is hiding the rape because of politics. The accused may be attempting to avoid it because it will put his sorry ass in jail.
However, it is now the fault of the Young Republicans therefore causing us a black eye.... Rape is horrifying. To read the posters in this blog attribute it to being "Young Republican party have adopted the morals of their leader and his house of dirty rotten liers" and "I feel strongly that there's been so much moral turpitude in Ohio, with Republicans that this alleged act simply can't be separated from EVERYTHING and stay on its own" (as Jill says, because of the RAB idoits. what about the rest of the party???) is disgusting.
Using rape for political gain and mud slinging is wrong, but apparently o.k. if you are a D pointing at an R.
wow...
Submitted by redenemy on Thu, 02/08/2007 - 5:14pm.
I used that quote incorrectly, and appologized for it. I also appologized for as I said, at one point THINKING that Mandel was the charged, even though I posted nothing to the effect. In fact, as Jill said, people are trying to have this hidden for political reasons. I said nothing about liars, or the like. My post was exactly about people being ashamed of the rape seemingly because it might cost the party politically. You can be mad at me if you like for the precieved slight, and I'm sorry that you are. Hope I've cleared up any misunderstanding.
Original posts
Submitted by Jill on Thu, 02/08/2007 - 6:35pm.
Weazel - I've commended you before on how I feel that you are a very sincere commenter and poster.
But now you've written that I've referred to people as "RAB idoits" (sic) and that's absolutely untrue - I have never done that (but I'm in my mid-40s so if I did, feel free to link to where I did that. I'm usually pretty good about not making those kind of statements.)
You've also made some statements about me accusing specific people of specific acts and so on and that's just not the case.
So here is the link to my first post and second one. In neither do I imply that any specific Ohio Republican is criminally or otherwise responsible for the alleged incident but merely suggest that they speak up to the extent that they can shed light on what happened.
If I were in the presence of Jim Trakas or Josh Mandel, both of whom have met me more than once (though Jim and I have not seen one another for at least a couple of years), or Rob Frost, whom I've never met but with whom I've exchanged emails over the last year, I promise you: I would read word for word what I wrote in those posts. Especially since, in general? I do actually talk like I write (yes I edited that to make sense!).
Calling someone a rising star is a setup. No one is perfect. This alleged incident happened here. They are in the party that sponsored the event in our county, our city. What can they say or do or share that would help indicate that, as one commenter said on my blog, we must trust the legal system and hope for a quick and just resolution.
IF Mandel is in some way involved
Submitted by Demgal on Thu, 02/08/2007 - 9:04pm.
in this disgusting mess, directly or indirectly, he should be held accountable also. If someone has put pressure on the victim, we need to know who it is. Let's hope its fully investigated.
demgal,
Submitted by RMC2000 on Fri, 02/09/2007 - 12:16pm.
if you were involved in this mess, directly or indirectly, you should be held accountable also. that is true for anyone, regardless of party affiliation. i don't know who this mandel kid is, but from what i can see, nothing, zero, zip, nada suggests that he knew these people, was in the same area code when this happened, heard about it before you heard about it, or did anything in response to it. do you have any evidence that he did something? if not, why are we talking about him? this is so rush limbaugh-esqe: vince foster died and he worked for the clintons - ipso facto, the clintons had him killed. by the way, where were you when vince foster died?
Never knew rape was political?
Submitted by King on Fri, 02/09/2007 - 11:54am.
Wow, never thought people would be able to link rape and politics.
Jill you should be ashamed of your post!
It is disgusting that you would try to draw a link to Josh from this event through his involvement with the Young Republicans.
What makes it even more disgusting is that you are a woman. You can try and explain all your why's and how's, but the intentions of your mud slinging post is obvious.
You start your post out with -
"One of the rising stars of GOP politics in America" allegedly commits rape in Cleveland
You know, that moniker is the kiss of death and if I were my current Ohio statehouse rep, I'd be doing everything in my power to make sure no one uses it about me like they've been doing ever again.
Then you continue -
Former Cuyahoga County Rep. Chair Jim Trakas, current Chair Rob Frost and maybe others need to come out and provide confidence that Cleveland is a safe place to host such events.....
Then you accuse the RPCC of being involved -
Some people here must know something. Which ones, what do they know and when did they know it?
But you don't like sensationalism - yeah right!!!
In hindsight, you being a democrat in Cuyahoga County, your views and mud slinging could only be expected. Is much easier for you to cast doubt on Josh's character, then try & defend the failures, corruption and incompetence of the dems running Cuyahoga County.
King
No mud
Submitted by Jill on Fri, 02/09/2007 - 1:57pm.
Being slung. Just questions being asked. I have no answers. Who does?
King - couple of things
Submitted by Jill on Fri, 02/09/2007 - 4:14pm.
The reference to Michael Flory as "one of the rising stars of the GOP in America" comes directly from his bio on the Michigan Federation of Young Republicans website, although it's been removed since an acting chair was installed yesterday. Mr. Flory is no longer referenced at all (except in a cached version of the site). I didn't make it up - I didn't have to.
Second, please do cite where I "try & defend the failures, corruption and incompetence of the dems running Cuyahoga County." Perhaps you haven't read my blog much and I would understand that. But if you did, you would know that I've routinely written about my firm and consistent lack of support for Jimmy Dimora. So I would be fascinated to see evidence of this accusation by you about how I "try & defend the failures, corruption and incompetence of the dems running Cuyahoga County."
I'm generally not into things that can spin sensational
But I feel strongly that there's been so much moral turpitude in Ohio, with Republicans that this alleged act simply can't be separated from EVERYTHING and stay on its own. People can say and fight and argue for that all they want, I don't see it that way. And I know that if the shoe was on the other foot, it wouldn't be allowed to be that way. A blog like RAB would be all over it if the alleged was a Dem. And frankly, I'd STILL want to know who knew what when. That doesn't change and the perceptions don't change.
If only the behaviors would change.