So Plunderbund's Making Stuff Up Now?
Submitted by Jerid on Fri, 03/07/2008 - 7:03pm.
I like Eric Vessels. Love the guy. Tremendously so.
But sometimes I wonder if his throttle button is jammed into the on position before he writes a word on the page. Case in point, his latest attack on BSB because I'm not willing to continue the onslaught of Clinton bombs post-primary. He even, laughably, suggests that the change in the editorial content at BSB is due to the fact that I got a pro-Clinton ad on the blog (pretty Busch league there, E).
Let me make something explicitly clear to everyone. Blasting away at Clinton for blasting away's sake does little in Ohio now. You know the Smith's down the street who bought into the "ready on day one" bullshit? They've already cast their ballot in the Ohio primary. Same goes for your neighbors around the block who were a soft clinton lean. The "Big Event" that's got me "shilling" for Clinton (go to hell Vessels) is that she won the Ohio primary. It's over. Done. Vamoose.
Do I support Hillary Clinton for the presidential nomination? Hell no. I've reiterated over and over again over the past month why I think Barack Obama is supremely more qualified. However, it's kind of pointless at this point to keep throwing bombs Clinton's way - at least in the manner in which the Ohio blogosphere has been for the past month - because SHE WON THE DAMN OHIO PRIMARY. If Plunderbund or others don't get that, whatever.
Now, there's plenty to critique re: the presidential primary. And there'll be plenty to critique in state for a while. But our tone in Ohio's got to change. That doesn't mean that we can't be critical of HRC anymore, but the way we do it's got be a little more thoughtful. Stomping our feet and pretending Ohio didn't vote already isn't going to get Obama any extra delegates.
Credibility
Submitted by Eric Vessels on Sat, 03/08/2008 - 12:22pm.
Earth to Jerid, We are NOT "post-primary". There is no compelling reason to abandon your candidate when the race is still on other than to maybe save some face with the party establishment you were going against having chosen their opponent. That, my friend, is Busch League.
We are not at the point where Hillary is our nominee. If we were, I'd be on the kumbaya wagon with you - probably not the most enthusiastic rider, but still there.
I never suggested that your content was influenced by an ad per se, I just questioned the placement and the timing of such placement. Maybe you don't control the placement, but I'm pretty sure I saw the Hillary ad below the Obama ad just before the primary and now it is (symbolically?) above. I also didn't insinuate you blog for the money so stop freaking out.
Maybe the disconnect is that we blog differently. You blog to influence Ohio and after Ohio has voted you go along with the will of the people. I don't. I also could give two shits if a party leader threatens me or my career. I can understand if you do, though.
I AM stuck in full throttle most of the time. I don't apologize for it. I pick a candidate and I see it through until they are either elected or defeated...at the END of the race. Pardon me there. Been my style from the beginning and not likely to change I reckon.
It simply looks bad that you pound away for weeks and then say "hey, everybody be cool now", especially when the race is far from over and many outside of Ohio pay attention to what is written here (to your great credit).
You think Subodh and other Obama activists are going to throw up their hands and say the people of Ohio have spoken just because of the results on March 4? Hell no. They will probably be phone banking, continuing to raise money, and yes even blogging pro-Obama and anti-Hillary right until the end when someone screams uncle or the whole damned thing blows up at the convention.
It's absolutely NOT pointless to continue to throw bombs Clinton's way. She's shown that's the way she wants to play this. You've not made one compelling argument why our tone has to change at all. If she's the nominee, then you have a point. Until then I'd ask you to advocate as strongly for your candidate as you did BEFORE Ohio voted. You don't have to play voice of the Ohio Democratic Party online. They have a blog for that already. Make your pick and stick with it...to the end. That's all I'm asking. Anything else appears, well, Busch League!
How's this for compelling:
Submitted by JMatthewL on Sat, 03/08/2008 - 6:54pm.
How's this for compelling: I don't read Plunderbund because it cannot separate out fact from unsubstantiated, prejudiced, bullsh**.
But I do read this blog. Hmm.
non-responsive
Submitted by Eric Vessels on Sat, 03/08/2008 - 7:33pm.
well, none responsive for one. second, i think you don't pay enough attention if you think PB can't separate fact from bullshit, or if you think you never get unsubstantiated prejudiced stuff here. free to read or not read. fine with me. i have preferences too. tend not to put much weight in anonymous comments. hmmm.
I'll have to agree with Eric on this one...
Submitted by Joseph on Sat, 03/08/2008 - 10:03pm.
If you don't read Plunderbund, Mr. JMatthewL, then your opinion of it hardly counts worth a snot.
And if you want to start counting 'unsubstantiated prejudiced' rumors then I'm willing to be bet there 10 times more posts that start "I heard" here on BSB than you find on PB.
Not that *most* of them aren't true, of course. :)
Credibility
Submitted by Jerid on Mon, 03/10/2008 - 8:54am.
First on PB - if you like funny pictures and video of President Bush dancing, PB's great for that - however, BSB does deal with Ohio politics a little more than PB (I know, omg, Ohio politics!), so whatever.
Second, Eric's just got a problem because he's disappointed with the Ohio election results and he doesn't know to take it out on. He was out of state for the majority of the election, so he's probably kicking himself for not being able to do more to swing the results (which is understandable, I wish I could've done more too).
Now, I just don't know why Vessels has decided to abandon the Democratic Party? Or why has Eric decided to pierce his nose? And why did Eric decide to get a sex change? You see, I can state completely absurd questions as facts too.
Fact of the matter, Vessels is just pissy. My support for Barack Obama has never softened, just Eric thinks there's a better way to support Obama than the way I am now. So he's trying to pressure me into taking his lead. The problem is I think Eric is doing more harm than good.
Making insinuations that other Obama supporters have abandoned him, or alleging payola (even though he's changing his story now. It's transparent), or any other bright eyed, wild swing does more harm than good when you're trying to rally the troops. That was always one of my biggest complaints with vessels back in the day, looks like some things never change.
Vessels, full throttle is good. But you may remember from our friend Mr. Naugle, full throttle can also do more damage than good. Food for thought. And it more than looks bad, it does damage, when you start turning the cannon on other Obama supporters. It hurts your cred and makes you look feral. Busch league, dude.
HRC has been throwing the bombs
Public opinion will get Obama extra delegates and people can't just stand by while HRC swiftboats Obama. <br />
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Now I agree that the criticism of HRC should not be personal. But there's nothing wrong with reminders that she doesn't seem to learn lessons---Voting to authorize Iraq war and supporting Lieberman/Kyl Admendment a few months ago that Bush and Cheney might use to attack Iran. <br />
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Or the fact that HRC has taken in more contributions from defense contractors than any other candidate---Dem or Republican. <br />
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Clinton has every right to stay in the race. But tearing down Obama to win is not going to do her any good and is bad for the Party and the country. John Edwards got out for what's best in November. The same should be expected of the Clintons if they know they can't win w/o bloodying it up.