Obama's misleading mailer on NAFTA hits Ohio
Jeff over at Ohio Daily Blog, has an item about a new Obama mailer attacking Hillary Clinton over NAFTA.
According to the Obama campaign:
- Obama has "consistently" opposed NAFTA.
- Clinton has called NAFTA a "boon" to the economy.
Jeff has the full mailer for y'all to see but let's clear the air of this right now.
Obama and Clinton have an exact identical record on trade. Both voted against CAFTA. Both voted to support the Bush Administration's proposal to expand NAFTA to include Peru. If you can find a difference in voting on international trade issues, please share it.
The claim that Hillary Clinton called NAFTA a "boon" to the economy is based on a 9/11/06 story in Newsday. However the story itself contains no such quote, but instead characterizes that as Clinton's position on NAFTA.
While claiming that he has "consistently" opposed NAFTA, Obama voted for the Peru trade deal. He has not called for the United States to withdraw from NAFTA or GATT. According to his own campaign's website, Obama is calling for changes to be made to NAFTA-- the same position he is criticizing Clinton for taking. Obama has not so much consistently opposed NAFTA as much as he might have consistently proposed tinkering with it. To me, that is a big difference from someone who has "consistently opposed" something. People who oppose abortion don't talk about reforming it; they talk about ending it.
Besides the Peru trade deal, Obama has supported other "free trade" deals presented to the Senate during his brief term.
This mailing is trying to make it appear that there is differences between Obama and Clinton that historically does not exist. Furthermore, it creates the impression that Obama is against international trade agreements, which is also not accurate. Third, it implies that Clinton has directly called NAFTA a "boon" to the economy when in reality that is how Newsday characterized her position on NAFTA.
Jeff also had an interesting piece on Senator Sherrod Brown's thoughts on the race:
"I'm not satisfied that either candidate is quite there yet on trade, alternative energy and manufacturing policy," Brown continued.
So Sherrod apparently does not believe there's much difference between Obama and Clinton on trade either.
Obama and Clinton both believe in the potential of NAFTA
Obama is trying to make it look like there's a distinction here by citing to the prior Clinton Administration's history with NAFTA. To that, Sen. Clinton has said that we believed that NAFTA would have worked out better than it has and changes need to be made.
Obama has said that's flip-flopping, and yet while he says that he's "consistently opposed" NAFTA, he, like Hillary, want to reform NAFTA because... he believes that with modifications it could work as well as people expected it to when it was ratified in the 1990s. Neither candidate wants to end NAFTA or GATT.
Obama's mailing uses quotes around the word "boon" which implieds that it's taken from a direct quote from Clinton herself. It's not. It's a direct quote of how a Newsday reporter characterized Clinton's views on NAFTA, which is materially different saying that Clinton herself has called NAFTA a boon to the economy.
Nice try, Jerid, but nowhere in the mailing is Obama attacking Clinton for how her husband's Administration pushed NAFTA was poorly formed- he's attacking the policy itself and trying to imply a radical difference on the issues from his opponent when none truly exists.
Another example of how Obama's "new" post-partisan politics really is the same ol' politics that we've seen.
Obama is misleading Ohio voters in this mailing and has been busted.
modern
Want to explain??
Sorry, but your comment is too cryptic. Obama's mailing pretty clearly is trying to imply there's a difference between him and Clinton on trade. A difference that their voting records do not reflect. He's also trying to make it sound like he's against NAFTA and free trade in general. He isn't.
His mailing is clearly deceptive and misleading. Sorry that you want to act otherwise, but you're going to have to come up with something better than "I'm rubber, your glue" routine.
ok, mod
sadly, it's in line with, though not precisely the same as, the Clinton campaign lately: full of leaps that are intellectually dishonest and require limber lying muscles.
mod, I've always enjoyed your frequently differing perspective, but this past week has been awful. Jerid's said you're shilling, and it certainly appears that way. I don't know if you're such a fan of the Gov you're going feral for his candidate or that you can't see the leaps you're making in your arguments, but from you, counselor, given your profession and post history, I'd expect a tighter argument. Mack trucks fit through some of these holes. Sideways.
Redhorse
Mind pointing out a "hole" in this post. What exactly is misleading about my allegations that this mailing is misleading?
Or are you just going to do what Jerid's been doing and repeat shill, shill, shill over and over again while you plug your ears and close your eyes and wish the inconvenient truth that Obama is just another politican goes away?
Find me a trade vote where Clinton and Obama differed. Am I wrong that Obama has voted for trade deals in the past? Am I wrong that he's not really opposed to NAFTA conceptually, but wishes to reform it?
And isn't that exactly what Clinton has been saying on NAFTA?
I'm seriously trying to respond to your comments but you're being incredibly vague.
I think it's amazing how Obama supporters are steadfastly unable to recognize that Obama is capable of making misleading and false statements about Clinton in his campaign. This isn't the only example out there, you know. Obama is a politician. I don't fault him for that, but I do believe it raises question how much he is ushering in a brand new kind of politics when he is making these kind of tried and true misrepresentations to make himself radically different from his opponent when he really isn't.
Modern!
Yes, Eric
Cool
That's amazing
What happened to being civil?
Lighten up modern
I used the "shill" word not so long ago to describe everyone in the Ohio blogoshpere.
But since you opened up the can 'o worms...some of the insinuations, statements, and fingers pointed you've thrown out there lately have made me have to walk away. I accept things as the Gospel truth eh?
Walking away, again now.
Don't walk away
Look, I just pointed that you started this comment about being civil and then played the "shill" card. All I've ask you to do is actually respond to the substance of this post and tell me where I'm wrong or "jumping in logic."
Is it or isn't true that Obama and Clinton have the exact same voting record on trade agreements in the Senate?
Is it or isn't true that Obama doesn't oppose NAFTA, but believes that with some modifications it could be a good policy?
Is it or isn't true that this mailing is designed to create some misconception that Obama is more populist than Clinton even though his voting history is exactly the same?
Is it or isn't it true that Hillary Clinton never said that "NAFTA has been a boon to our economy," as Obama's mailing states, but instead that's how a a reporter from Newsday generally characterized as Clinton's position on NAFTA.
Sherrod Brown said it plainly. Neither candidate is where he believes they should be on trade. (There was time that this blog ridiculed Brown for making TRADE one of his signature issues in his campaign.)
Your response so far has been to try to change the topic to the debate, suggest that I'm not credible because I'm a shill, then when asked to simply explain what is inaccurate about my post, you say you won't because now you're taking the high road. It's great avoidance strategy, Jerid.
And for the record, in this post, you used the word "shill" to describe me and this post one comment after you admonished me to keep this discussion civil.
I've been civil on this. And I've been factually accurate. And I'm waiting for evidence to the contrary. So far, you and Redhorse are lacking.
And as far as "flip flopping" goes
No...
Sorry, but I don't find it riveting, nor do I find it surprising that Obama's reason for not agreeing to the CNN/ODP debate in Columbus but instead the MSNBC one in Cleveland had a racial demographic component to it. And that for that reason the Clinton campaign resisted it.
Debate is still on though, right?
Frankly, I think holding the campaigns accountable on their misleading statements on matter of actual policy is far more important than web banner-gate or landlord-gate which has been the steady diet of you and Russo lately.
Oh, So stone faced lies aren't important anymore
Second half of the video. Hillary tells Youngstown anchor she's agreed to all debates. Minutes later she tells the Cleveland anchor she has not agreed to the Cleveland debate. No matter how you want to spin it, that's a two faced lie.
Tells one person one thing, the other another thing.
That's not important? Because that's one of the most transparent lies I've seen this entire campaign. But that sort of thing ain't important anymore I suppose because it hurts Team Clinton.
And this landlord/webabnner whatever. Paying your bills is important, just like policy is. Sure, this would be a big deal...but once again, I think you're making mountains out of molehills while distorting Clinton's past ties to NAFTA. Explain away the debate video I just posted. If that isn't damning evidence of her ties to NAFTA, that what could be Modern?
Don't get all righteous on me brotha', I'll be more than happy to knock you down.
Again...
Can't watch the video to your comment for some reason as it's coming as an invalid object. But to equate the webbanner story as the same as a blatant misrepresentation of your own and your opponent's position on the issue as an equal offense is not something I can agree to.
Ironic that you'd use the mountains out of molehills analogy since my entire post is that Obama's mailing is misleading just for that very reason. Except in this case, there's not even a molehill. Obama and Clinton are clones of each other on trade and their voting records prove that. And, yet, Obama's mailing makes it seems like he's against free trade. He isn't.
I'll be frontpaging this later tonight
Prep your arguments.
Some reason...
Sounds as convincing as your
Facts don't lie
More distortions
Nice try, but Oprah was in South Carolina (and Iowa) in early December; NOT prior to the SC primary. Where was the race card there?
The Bradley effect was something being trotted out by many after New Hampshire, including The Nation.
If you don't think Bill and others weren't race-baiting going into South Carolina, then you're delusional.
Why else do you think the tide turned against the Clintons.
Edwards supporters like myself were totally turned off by those scum tactics and gravitated toward Obama as Edwards faded and the Clintons played dirty with Obama.
Still waiting on you to call me back
Ouch
I have...
lurked on this blog for awhile, dating back to when it was focused on the senate primary. However, I have never felt the need to register or comment, but today I felt the urge to do so because of recent front page content. While I think that Jerid and Tim have every right to support their chosen candidate, I think they are doing their candidate no favors by focusing on trivial things like unpaid cleaning bills. I know Jerid has worked on campaigns in the past, so he should know that things like that often get overlooked during a campaign, especially ones operating at the national level. I would not be surprised if Obama, Edwards, etc. have similar situations that still need resolved. In fact, I am aware of a similar situation that only got resolved a few weeks ago and know of similar incidents that happened in 2004. Its an unfortunate, but common thing for extra expenses, like cleaning bills, to get overlooked in the frenzy of a campaign.
I am glad Modern has been around to keep things balanced around here. However, for all his effort, everytime he makes a valid point he is shot down as a shill for Hillary. I think we should be more civil and respectful towards fellow Democrats on this blog. I think intelligent and good Democrats can and have reached the conclusion to support Hillary Clinton. There are good points to be made for her candidacy (I may write an entry on them later) and one does not have to be shilling for her to see the merit in them. I hope as this race moves forward, we try to learn from each other and build the party for November, not shoot each other down.
Hillary--some "trade" data
Formatting helps...
Having read your comments. I have one response. Obama has voted for a number of free trade deals during his two-years in the Senate. He and Clinton both voted against CAFTA, though.
Clinton has acknowledged that NAFTA hasn't worked out like it was promised and would like to change it to make it fairer. That's exactly the same position as Obama's campaign platform.
Despite all the protectionists rhetoric, neither candidate will withdraw our country from NAFTA, GATT, or any other free trade deal. They are both free traders who are promising "fairer" free trade. They are not populist protectionist.
That's all I'm trying to say.





I'm not sure
How much of a difference there is between Obama and Clinton substantively on the trade policies they're proposing moving forward.
HOWEVER, a big strike against Clinton (and Dodd for that matter when I met with him this past summer) is her unfledging support for the 90's era NAFTA movement. I've yet to see a quote from her stating the push her husband made (and that I'd assume she's claimed as her own, since everythign Bill ever did is part of her legacy too, or she would have me believe with that whole "experience" argument she pushes) was poorly formed. That's a negative strike against the good Senator on trade no matter how you spin it. I would suggest that your bruhaha about the newsday story is much ado about nothing. Hillary has never acceptably distanced herself from the NAFTA legacy. I have a hard time in finding fault with Obama for using that against her.
I'll be back with more on this one later, but let's try to keep this debate a little more civil than the last.