Ya See What Happens When You Push Religion ?
Submitted by staff on Thu, 05/18/2006 - 10:47am.
When one religion pushes and pushes and pushes, eventually people of faith who disagree push back. Ohio has been a battle ground on so many issues in recent years. Now it's front and center in the religious debate too
I have serious concerns...
Submitted by LisaRenee on Thu, 05/18/2006 - 2:18pm.
I don't believe religion and politics should mix. My religion to me is a personal decision. Nor do I think that a pastor, rabbi, priest, pope, shaman whatever title they have in a religion should be in a position where they try to influence voters. It puts people of faith at possible odds with the person that is at the most basic description a part of their spirituality. I'm a Roman Catholic, I doubt the Pope would feel at times I was a good one because I don't always agree with him yet I do know those who take the words of those who "represent" God very seriously. Using a persons relationship with God or a religion for political purposes to me goes against the very foundation of this country. No matter who is doing it, to me it's wrong. Further, I can't help but feeling this has happened because the Democrats have allowed this whole morality question to be a political issue when it shouldn't be. In response to the attempt at a public impression that the Democrats are immoral and godless, we trot out candidates who make statements on their faith, we get religions/churches involved to "counter" what the religious right is doing.
To me this became clearly apparent during the last Presidential campaign. I think the question should be why do we keep letting the religious right place us in a position were we feel it necessary to defend our morals when religion really has nothing to do with the most basic idea of government which is set up by our Constitution. It shouldn't matter if a person believes in God or not, what should matter is what is he or she going to do as an elected official to serve the best interests of all of his/her constituents. If they pray or not the only person that should really matter to is them.
Religion in "politics" and
Submitted by JeanLR on Thu, 05/18/2006 - 3:19pm.
Religion in "politics" and religion in government seem to me to be 2 different things~ I don't see what's wrong with talking about what shapes a person's world view from a spiritual perspective, I'd like to know who inspires a candidate or what ideas underlie a person's overall policy positions.
Religion in Government is an entirely different thing. I t goes to the role of government in our society. What part is our Government- For, By and Of the People - to play in our lives? "We the People...in order to create a more perfect union...", Isn't the role of the government, in our system, ideally, to serve the Public Good?
I mean, Life is complicated enough, and painful enough; and without support of our fellow citizens, and neighbors, in the form of a governing system that can help smooth the sharper edges off Life, we might as well run around the Savannas scavaging for food and hiding from Lions.
Our Government doesn't need to, and ours cannot legally, establish a preferred religion, though many might want it. Certainly the "religious" issues are used by demagogues to divide and create a culture of suspician. What an Anti-American notion that is!
Democrats, and anyone with a spiritual underpinning to thier public policy views, should never shrink from talking about what or who inspires them. I think it's important when a person is trying to inspire others to vote for them and to support thier work! And to trust thier intentions as well. We need to foster a culture of trust and openess, where our citizens don't fear eachother~
There in lies the problem
Submitted by LisaRenee on Thu, 05/18/2006 - 3:38pm.
The assumption that because a person has a faith or a spiritual belief that it is not only our business but has some factor as to their ability to serve as an elected official.
The assumption that there even has to be a spiritual perspective.
In my opinion we will never have a culture of openess when we disinclude those who do not believe by comparing them to those who publicly claim to believe in a higher power. Yes, I know I'm supposed to want the whole world to be Roman Catholic, but I don't. I only want those who want to be to do so. If people choose not to believe in God at all? That shouldn't matter.
I wasn't referring to faith
Submitted by JeanLR on Thu, 05/18/2006 - 4:23pm.
I wasn't referring to faith in god, simply that there exists an underlying world-view that will shape one's policy goals in politics.
Even athiests have a "spiritual" belief, human beings are hard-wired for it~ some have established religions as a path or keystone, others have a simple connection with, or understanding of, the outside world that transcends food, shelter and ego.
Regardless of its form, there's nothing wrong with openly discussing big ideas. In fact, it is the only way to truth, progress, peace and justice. Big ideas, yes, but what the hell? Let's talk~ the demogogues want us to fear and distrust.
I ain't scared! :-)
Most of the atheists I know
Submitted by LisaRenee on Thu, 05/18/2006 - 5:27pm.
Would cringe at the choice of the word "spiritual".
Even with that while I understand your clarification, that to me still really has no role in politics or government. A person can claim to be whatever they want to be but it is their actual plans to accomplish something that should be the factor that a person is elected on. So much of campaigns anymore are about hype rather than what will this person really honestly be able to do if elected. Somebody could be a great person with all kinds of wonderful personal attributes yet that doesn't mean I want to vote for them.
It's become so much about marketing and selling and then we are disappointed when the person we voted for gets into office and doesn't do anything productive or what we think is productive. Maybe if we spent a little more time looking at their actual work resume as far as what are their strong points or weak points and how realisitic the promises made were? We'd end up with a better end result. The candidates would also have to actually be honest too, not promise people things that are not possible. I think that's another part of the whole voter apathy issue, people who realize it's just more empty promises decide to give up. To me the solution is to keep demanding real answers.
Focusing on religion is just going to cloud the already murky political discussions. Not to mention open the door to even more religion being involved in politics rather than less. As well as make those who don't believe religion is a part of this feel even less a part of the process. We already have enough things that divide us, it's ironic that something that is supposed to be about caring and love ends up with an opposite result.
Comments from Frances Strickland
Submitted by Renee in Ohio on Thu, 05/18/2006 - 7:41pm.
FYI, I talked to Frances Strickland about religion and politics after last night's events. Her comments can be found here.
No "mixed feelings" here.
I completely disagree. The only reason the extreme fundamentalists have gotten this far is because reasonable people of faith have wrung their hands and said they don't want to get them dirty by "politicizing" religion. I was at the We Believe Ohio- Cleveland event at the Cleveland Play House and found it inspiring, energizing and essential. One thing the "relgious left" has been criticized for correctly- is that in its fear of seem "political" it has allowed the religious right to completely define what faith values are. The aim of We Believe Ohio is to show that there is a completely different definition of that but NOT