Cincinnati lobbyists banning stuffed animals and ski ball

With the recent filing of the Cincinnati amendment come the sounds of heartbreak of many young children throughout the buckeye state. That’s because the Cincinnati Casino amendment’s language could forever forbid family dining venues like Chuck E. Cheese or Dave & Busters from being able to provide games of skill as they do today. Gone would be the joy of many arcade-style games. And as those children games are banished, so too would the laughter and joy of children who would no longer be permitted to play skilled games which would allow kids to win a stuff animal at a child’s birthday party… Alas, the little ones would still be able to sing songs to their hearts’ content, but skill based fun could become a thing of the past for Ohio’s kids.

But some are singing a different tune. To them such arcade-style games are part of Americana, and deserve to be permitted as pure entertainment. In the end, they hope their tune is music to voters’ ears.

One conductor for this chorus is a leader in the hospitality industry that provides family entertainment to children and their families. To him, this is no laughing matter. His name is David Courey, and Mr. Courey works with the hospitality industry who has registered his members’ opposition to the offending language. It is expected that he will not be alone as other owner/operators and customers of such skill-based entertainment are reportedly preparing to join the opposition to the Cincinnati Casino Shell Game.

Like actor Robert Preston’s character (Harold Hill) in the movie The Music Man, the slick promoters of the Cincinnati Casino Amendment have lured the City Council and other leaders to action, but these folks neglected to mention key points:
First, an Amendment which is already being circulated throughout Ohio (which does not set a casino at Broadway Commons or in Cincinnati), would generated millions of dollars a year without tax increases for the City of Cincinnati.

Secondly, while these characters have sung sweet nothings, they have told the good people to turn a deaf ear to the sighs of little children… as well as the young adults whose dreams of college opportunity will fade if both measures reach the ballot. That’s because political observers agree that if both reach the ballot, neither has much of a chance to pass. So much for the tens of millions Cincinnati is “promised” with the Cinci Casino Amendment.

Like the huckster Hill, these men – who (seeing a good thing for themselves) have duped some in Cincinnati – having filed this hurtful amendment as a possible way to “negotiate” a settlement to benefit these slim few. That knowledge has led some to call their Amendment “The Churn & Burn Amendment” because it was designed to churn-up concern in Cincinnati and burn the Learn & Earn Amendment which will generate nearly one billion dollars in college scholarships for young adults.

So let’s see if we can sum this up:

Cincinnati Casino Amendment (AKA Churn & Burn) would banish arcade-style games of skill from Ohio, and giving false hope to Cincinnati of the Amendment making it o the ballot, let alone ever passing if it faced a better written gaming issue.

Conversely, the Learn & Earn Amendment would protect arcade-style games, while opening the doors to nearly one billion dollars per year in college opportunities for Ohio’s young adults.

What a shame that those Music Men who are trumpeting the Cincinnati harmful measure are putting their own self interest ahead of the kids and young adults of Ohio.

Check out our new blog at: www.ohiolearnandearn.com/blog/

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I'm sorry, but....

Todd, I can't support Ohio Learn and Earn.

And, no, it's not that I'm just opposed to gambling.  It's that I even more opposed to gambling as a means to fund education.

I don't believe that slot machines are the solution to make college more affordable in Ohio.   And I think the claimed benefits are as inflated as they were when we naively adopted a State Lottery Commission.

If I had my way, we'd end state-sponsored gambling in Ohio.  Having the state promoting gambling is like having fire departments promote arson.  Even for charity, the costs outweigh the benefits.  Gambling in Ohio has been on the ballot more times than I can remember.  And it's always been resoundly defeated.  And I hope Learn and Earn is, too.

humbug

if folks wanna gamble let 'em. I don't need a nanny. You just dont like fun !

What do you expect?

I am a lawyer, after all.

But that's not my point.  You want to gamble, fine.  You want to legalize gambling, fine.  But doing so under the guise of some public good because a paultry amount goes to help education is just bad policy.

OMG, I just realized that I'm turning into Dwight's girlfriend in "The Office."

I thought I had debunked this faulty line

I thought I had debunked this faulty line of reasoning some time ago - it appears not. LOL

No you did not debunk

Russell, what you did was state, re-state and re-state again why you think it's okay to support the casino initiatives.  Under no circumstances would I or obviously others take the view that you debunked the ideas of those of us who do not support casino initiatives.

emotional

I think i debinked all but the emotional argument, and there isnt much i can do about that without super human persuasive powers...

Disagree 100%

Russell, you call it emotional but you are mischaracterizing and forgetting.  Others argues the falsehood of believing that education or the economy will improve because of gambling, and you know that others commented about that.  Come on, now, you are very smart and you know the depth of arguments on both sides, whether you care to validate the opposition or not.

indeed

And i thought I had shown evidence that eviscerated the oppostions arguments, backed by hard data and pictures of cuddling animals...

Humor is always helpful in

Humor is always helpful in persuasion, and you'd have to ask others if they feel that you eviscerated arguments in opposition to casinos.  I don't.  If anything, no surprise, I see your points - I said that over and over.  However, the arguments against casinos outweigh your points, for me.

ROLF

omfg, you just typed omg and referenced the office on one comment.  mention mama's basement and its the blogger trifecta!

Sorry, ryan

I would have typed that, too, but my computer went out after I spilt all the "kool-aid I've been drinking."

Paltry amount?

I certainly wouldn't call nearly one billion a year a paltry amount.

I think you a missing the point a bit. People like to gamble and they are going to do so whether it’s on the river, in Indiana, Michigan or Ohio. Why should we allow the Hoosiers and Wolverines to benefit from the taxes on Ohioans' money?

Why not make sure that money stays in Ohio and funds scholarships for EVERY student in Ohio within 12 years?

Slot machines @ Ohio racetracks....

Will earn over $3B a year?  Cause that's what it would take under the amendment's language to generate that kind of revenue for the scholarships.  With a cap at 31,400 slot machines, that's roughly $106k a machine in net revenue a year to generate that kind of funding.

I agree

And so, apparently, does Ted Strickland, according to the Plain Dealer.

Huh, rat?

I just read that article - with what are you saying you agree and Strickland agree??

Modernesquire

and opposing the casino amendment

A thousand times no

Ok - this is a reprint of a comment I left on Brewed Fresh Daily about learn and earn.  And, as a refresher, here is the BSB post with 100+ comments on the topic of casinos, in which Russell and others supply reasons to support, and others, myself included, supplied reasons to oppose.

"No no no no no - a thousand times no. How DUMB do you have to be to think, when you read this stuff, HELLO?? Brain drain? Kids either don’t go to college or LEAVE here to go?

Shouldn’t we be focusing on those kids who we make take proficiencies? who can’t make headway on closing the achievement gap? don’t we need more high school graduates coming out of our state first, you know, in order to supply the colleges? Argh.

I hate casinos.

If casino supporters can come up with a thousand different ways to try and sell casinos, imagine what might happen if they spent their time trying to figure out how to get Ohio primary and secondary students through 12 years of pre-college education and get them ready for college.

You know, so we don’t have to hear about how something like 40% of all money going to Ohio’s state colleges is spent on REMEDIAL classes. I suppose that’s what the Learn and Earn money will really end up paying for.

Did I say I hate casinos? "

Good point but...

"Shouldn’t we be focusing on those kids who we make take proficiencies? who can’t make headway on closing the achievement gap?"

Sure, these are all important goals as well and I hope someone comes up with some ideas in this regard.

However, the rising cost of tutition is an economic barrier for those high achieving students who simply cannot afford to attend. In addition, huge school loans tie a dead weight on to young professionals trying to get ahead in life.

Also, knowing that anyone has the chance to go to college would inspire those students who might not currently see it as an option. I think this would attract many students who may be the first in their families to attend college.

Lets face it; in today's economy some type of post-secondary education is essential. Why not allow these students the ability to use their talents and follow their dreams?

 

 

Todd, is this true about Learn & Earn

Let me know which, if any, of these things are not true:

1) Less than 1/3 of the net profits of the slot machines goes to pay for the scholarships.

2) That it will authorize over 30,000 slot machines total at Ohio's seven horse racing tracks, two locations in Cleveland, and one in Cincinnati.

3) Six percent of the slot machines' profits will go to fund nothing more than the race tracks' purse funds.

4) That the amount going to subsize other forms of gambling (see Item 3) is six times the amount that will go to fund gambling addiction services.

5) That all proceed winnings and wagers will be immune from taxation.

Are any of these things I mentioned not true?

To answer your questions:

 1) 32 percent of the gross slot machine revenue will be dedicated to the scholarship program. Which would equal nearly one billion a year.

2) The amendment will authorize 31,500 slot machines.

Here is the math:

On a conservative estimate a slot machine brings in an average of $250/day (Indiana's slot machines average $415/day). Multiply $250/day for 31,500 machines for 365 days and you get the conservative estimate of $2,874,375,000.

32 percent of $2.9 billion is nearly a billion a year for education.

3) Yes six percent of the gross goes to promote Ohio's tradition of horseracing. This is intended to advance the sport of horse racing in Ohio. Larger southern racetracks have bigger purses, thus the best jockeys and horses are less interested in competing in Ohio.

4) The amendment allows for nearly $29 million in funds for gambling addiction services. This is the largest amount ever allocated for addiction services and will be required each year indefinitely.

5) I am not sure that I understand what you are asking here. 45% of the 100% gross goes directly into the pockets of Ohio citizens by way of scholarships, economic development and health services. Don’t fall for Petro and Montgomery’s number games. How many people have to pay a tax rate of 45%?

The remaining profit will go towards building and improving facilities, hiring new staff (more jobs), operational costs, etc.

And most importantly, this is money that Ohioans are already spending. Ohioans spend over $2 billion a year at casinos outside of the state. Casinos in Indiana, West Virginia, Michigan, Windsor, Canada and starting next year, Pennsylvania, surround us.

I would personally rather pay for the education of Buckeye state children than pave the roads in Indiana.

So, that would be yes, they're all correct.

And according to the language certified by the Ohio Attorney General's office, only thirty, not thirty-two, percent, goes to the scholarship fund.

The addiction services is only 1% of the total revenues generated even though the proposal spends more money bringing in over 30,000 slot machines at race tracks that will have subsized purses to appeal even more to gamblers.  I can't remember a greater expansion of gambling in Ohio.  I feel safe in saying it surpasses the Lottery Commission.

To say it goes to promote horseracing is a little disingenious.  It goes to subsizing tracks by taking money from one gambling activity and put it in the pot for another.  The "promotion of horseracing" is a little more indirect.  It's corporate welfare for race tracks who cannot stay competitive on the open market now and who are going to get $1.6B in new annual revenue tax-free if this thing passes.  Of course, they won't also turn around and take the $1.6B and make capital improvements and seek further tax deductions and credits (and job credits) as well.

Does $2B in casinos out of the state=$2B in slots?  No, because most Ohioans who gamble out of the state probably don't play the slots.  And people are still going to go to Vegas for the sake of going to Vegas.  So Ohioans aren't going to recoup that $2B "lost opportunity" cost.  Also, how do you figure we have $2B in lost gambling, but the slot machines would generate over $2B?   Are people from Indiana, Michigan, West Virginia, and Pennsylvania going to go out-of-state to use Ohio slots?  Doubtful in any significant numbers.  Even by your own "conservative" estimate, Learn and Earn would generate more revenue than we're "losing," but still be several hundreds of millions short of the $1B promised in scholarship money.

Fine.  I'd rather pay for college education for Ohio children than pave roads (or to be fair, educate children in Indiana).  So amend the amendment to allow the proceeds of winnings and wagers to be taxed at regular income with the stipulation that the money from that revenue be earmarked for education.  Do that, and I'd be more inclined to support this measure.  Otherwise, it appears to be nothing more than a constitutional amendmend to enshire corporate welfare for the racetrack industry cloaked in a politically popular issue.

According to the IRS...

The proceeds of winnings and wagers should be filed on one's state and federal tax forms if winnings exceed $1200. I am not an expert, but it looks to me that someone would file a W2-G form.

http://www.irs.gov/pub/irs-pdf/fw2g_05.pdf

There is nothing in this amendment that would change this law.

Nice try, but you miss the point.

Of course, the amendment can't change federal tax law, but it can and does change what is considered income under Ohio tax law.

The Learn & Earn amendment states: "No other fees or taxes may be applied to or levied against the amounts wagered or the proceeds of the gaming authorized by this section."

That means for at least state tax purposes, over $1B goes to the owners of the race tracks and other slot machines locations without being subject to Ohio tax.  And the "winners" from the machines don't have to pay any state taxes on their winnings, even if they do have to pay federal income tax on it.  This thing looks more and more like a giveaway with most the largess going to the race track owners and not Ohio children.

Yes, they'll still be subject to federal tax, but that's because the Ohio constitutional can't give away federal taxation to corporations like the Learn & Earn Amendment does.

Actually you are incorrect

Of course the amendment cannot change federal law, but it also does not change state law. The clause you are speaking of does not pertain to large amount winners; they would be required to claim their winnings. The clause refers to taxes on the 55% of gross profit that is left over after the 45% tax on the owner/operators. 

 The clause was inserted so that politicians that oppose the amendment could not turn around and tax it out of existence once the voters had passed it. (Think "Governor" Blackwell and the Ohio General Assembly on a power trip.)

Here's the thing though, Todd

Numbers.  Give us numbers.

With one out of every three kids never graduating high school, and 44% of Ohio public university students taking remedial classes, then dontcha think this decreases the relative importance of the "high achieving students who simply cannot afford to attend"?  If they're high achieving, chances are that scholarships already exist for them, no?  At a minimum, their pool of opportunities are already increased because they're coming out of high school as high achieving.

It's those in the middle, as always, that are stuck.

Ohio's brain drain and economic stalemate, as it relates to higher education, has to do with those one in three not graduating, the 44%'s drain on universities' resources and how Ohio employers' needs can't be met.

It's primary and seconday education that needs attention.  The only other population the universities are starting to serve more and more?  Older folks who go back for re-training or more education for other jobs, since their first, second or third ones went elsewhere.  Or who never got a degree in the first place.

links ?

Jill got links ? 1/3 of kids dont graduate HS ? 44% need remedial uni schooling ? Where'd ya get that from ? not saying it isnt true, just wanna see the data...

The one-third number was the

The one-third number was the cover story of either Time or Newsweek within the last two-four months or so - I'll find it.  The 44% number came out sometime within the last year in the Ohio newspapers and was bandied about a lot.  Will also find a link for that soon too.  Off to pick up my kid who better graduate one of these days because a spring popped off his braces.  I'm so glad I'm not a kid anymore.

Time Drop Out Nation

Here's the one-third story.

OSU prof

cited in an article that refers to our state's remedial numbers being 41% - still looking for the 44

Numbers not ready for primetime

Here's from the PD.

Editorial in full - Ohio regents report says 2/5 need remedial

Link to Regents' report

Sorry for all these comments!  Here's the last one with the link to the Regents' 2005 report re: high school transition to college.

Tuiton is rising because

the state of Ohio does not fund public universities adequately. Then politicians blame the universities for raising tuition -- really it is a way for them to pass the costs on to students and their families, and blame the pointy headed intellectuals.

So students take out loans (and the interest rate is rising), there are dwindling numbers of scholarships and grants, and nearly every undergraduate I know has to work as well as go to school.

OSU is constantly struggling with the problem of remediation. People who have finished high school too frequently do not have the math or writing -- or even reading -- skills they need to do college level work. The miracle is that the universities do a heroic job with helping them get up to speed -- but students (and their parents) resent paying for remedial courses. So college can take longer when students aren't properly educated -- and there is constant pressure on faculty to lower their demands and expectations, because the students have to work their way through school. All too often they are there ONLY because they see a degree as the way to a higher paying job, and they fight any attempt to make them become more critical, curious or investigative. If I made students read something with complex ideas or vocabulary, a depressingly high percentage would say "It's boring," and not read it.

I am with Jill on this -- I don't like state sponsored gambling because I think it legitimizes preying on people with little money, especially when it promises money for education the way the lottery system has done. I don't want casinos in state -- isn't Ohio corrupt enough already? The opportunities for further greedy evil deeds is mind boggling.

Thanks for this insight,

Thanks for this insight, Lucie.  As it often happens, the question comes down to whether we pay upfront (in the primary and secondary years) or we pay on the backend by helping the people who want to catch up do so at college prices and then totally failing those individuals who choose not to get remedial assistance in college or anywhere else and therefore less likely to or capable of contributing to the revitalization we profess to want to have in this state. I don't know the numbers, but I'm quite certain that time and time again, paying upfront costs less and provides better results - probably one of the reasons that Strickland supports the expansion of early childhood education.

ECE is crucial and

under a lot of pressure from "teaching to  (or for) the test" these days. I am convinced that teaching is often as much an art as a science, and if we don't leave room for good teachers to see and use "teachable moments" we all lose. I don't remember doing well on standardized tests as a big deal (although I was a stellar test taker) -- what mattered were the "aha" moments provided by teachers who did something that interested me, got me thinking.

I don't think we can ever get away from remediation -- but we can make it less often necessary, and I don't think it should cost the student or the college -- after all, society benefits when people are educated better. They earn more, and they also do more innovative, creative things.

Interestingly, at the college level, students who had not expected to go to college, but come in via community college or landgrant universities, often do amazingly well.

They are there because they want to be, they bring discipline and focus, they aren't afraid to ask questions -- or to ask for help, they have a sense of self that comes through in writing and research. America has always been the land of second chances, and it is tremendously important in education at every level.

The federal government has found a new way to control high school curricula, by offering Academic Competitiveness Grants that are only available to students who have taken part in "rigorous programs of study," as defined by the feds. I assume that Taft's plans to make Ohio high school curricula more demanding are linked to this. http://insidehighered.com/news/2006/05/16/rigor

I don't have a problem with encouraging this, but it is being done under Pell Grants, which help low-income students -- so I don't want things to shift so that if you weren't in a place at age 14 or 15 to focus on academics, you'll be shut out of financial aid.