Buckeye State Blog - OH-16: State Senator John Boccieri: AG Dann should resign immediately - Comments

Had the evidence been sufficient

Schmennis — Thu, 08 May 2008 06:47:26 -0700

I'm right with you, had the Evidence been sufficient against Gutierrez, which CPD says it wasn't unfortunately, I completely agree that the LEAST he could have plead down to was disorderly conduct. That's why I said the LEAST, maybe I misstated it, when I said "guilt of" I should have stated that differently.

I was looking up code and I think Ohio is a bit lenient on Gross Sexual Imposition, Sexual Imposition and sexual assault. I didn't find, if sexual contact is considered whether or not through the clothing. My experience has been that touching whether or not through the clothing for the purpose of sexual considered "sexual contact" and sexual contact when the victim is unaware, intoxicated or has been forced under the treat, is GSI. Which I think is what Stankoski complained. I think the only glitch in Stankosi's charge was she had no other evidence.

And I know what you are saying about plea bargaining....I once was in court and a kid was charged with I think it was reckless driving and he plead down to the lowest thing the judge could think of which was mechanical violation (busted headlight). No headlight was actually faulty. I remember thinking at the time, the charge should have more serious because there were under age children in the car he was driving.

The attorney and judge are golf buddies. lol

The point remains

JMatthewL — Thu, 08 May 2008 04:50:18 -0700

I mixed up the names, my apologies. As for your statements...

Arguably, the public in your case was the conscious passenger, who was "inconvenienced, annoyed, or alarmed" by the unwarranted sex-for-money solicitation. I say arguably, because this is what the commentary to the statute says:

"The gist of the first part of the section is perversely causing inconvenience, annoyance, or alarm to another in any of the listed ways: fighting, threatening, or engaging in wild behavior; making noise excessive under the circumstances; being offensively coarse; needling another in a way likely to incite him into a disorderly response; and unlawfully and without justification creating a dangerous or offensive condition. Some examples of violation include: an affray or the bluster building up to an affray; continuing a noisy party into the wee hours to the discomfiture of the neighbors; displaying a sign using an old English four-letter functional verb in the imperative mood to describe what to do to the rival team at the Big Game; making remarks calculated to annoy their target into taking a swing at his tormentor; relieving oneself in an improper spot; and exploding a firecracker at someone's feet."

(The second part of the statute deals only with public intoxication.)

The context of the situation also changes whether an act can cause inconvenience, annoyance, or alarm. Being loud and heckling at a baseball game is not disorderly conduct. Being loud in one's own home may cause a disturbance if the noise carries beyond one's home. Conversely, engaging (or proposing to engage in) sexual acts in one's own home is unlikely to result in disorderly conduct.

The fact that your fella plead guilty does not mean that he factually engaged in disorderly conduct, it just means that the cost of winning a court battle against the potential charges against him is higher than being guilty of disorderly conduct. As you said, disorderly conduct is used for plea bargains. In Frank Stare's case, it is a crime to solicit sex for hire. It's also a crime to assault a woman trying to hastily leave your vehicle, by physically grabbing her arm and forcing a kiss. Frank Stare could have been brought up on charges of solicitation, assault, and attempted rape. Needless to say, the slap on the wrist of disorderly conduct, however improperly applied to Frank Stare, was attractive and he jumped at it.

If Dann's posse can be brought up on something like attempted rape, you may be right in that disorderly conduct will be applied in a plea bargain attempt. But unless another crime has occurred, it is highly unlikely that disorderly conduct will appear in this situation.

A party occurs in your mouth not in your pants

Schmennis — Wed, 07 May 2008 23:12:11 -0700

Ok, I hope I don't move to fast for you.....

We aren't talking about Utovich, we are talking about Cindy Stankoski, the woman that woke up with her pants partly undone.

As far as your public gatherings goes you are correct.

Ex-Newark mayor pleads no contest to disorderly conduct

Tuesday, May 6, 2008 12:51 PM

THE COLUMBUS DISPATCH

NEWARK, Ohio — A former Newark mayor pleaded no contest today to a charge of disorderly conduct in exchange for the dismissal of a charge accusing him of offering a woman money for sex.

Frank Stare III, 60, who ran the city as mayor for 12 years ending in 2004, had been charged with a third-degree misdemeanor soliciting charge stemming from an Oct. 12 incident in downtown Newark. According to a police report, Stare offered a 20-year-old woman money for sex during a ride to her apartment.

Where was the "crowd" in this "crime?"

Disorderly conduct is a common charge catch-all to plea down to regardless of the presence of a crowd. As a former Deputy Sheriff I have seen plenty of sexual assaults and gross sexual impositions barganed down to disorderly conduct.

Still not a crime

JMatthewL — Wed, 07 May 2008 22:46:56 -0700

The sexual harassment here, by itself, allows for three things: (1) a civil action; (2) bar disciplinary proceedings; or (3) removal from public office.

Perjury is a crime, but the sexual harassment was not perjury. Perjury refers to knowingly making false statements under oath to a tribunal. No, this does not mean that Dann and his posse committed perjury because they work with tribunals and swore an oath when they took office.

Disorderly conduct is a crime, but the sexual harassment was not disorderly conduct. Disorderly conduct, in layman's terms, refers to disrupting public gatherings. While you may think a party occurs in your pants, I don't think that courts would agree that Utovich had a public gathering in hers.

Try my zipper

mvirenicus — Wed, 07 May 2008 20:14:44 -0700

How about your pals over at BushCo? Does lying the nation into a war qualify as a crime? Does the fact that the Dems have chosen not to pursue such a slam-dunk qualify as a crime?

Duty. Honor. Donuts.

mvirenicus — Wed, 07 May 2008 20:01:17 -0700

I was a proud member of the Mighty Mighty Chairborne. I might have written your paycheck if you were old enough to serve at the same time as myself.

Yeah, the brilliant simplicity of the 9/11 attacks against the most arrogant and self-vaunted country on this earth made me laugh. What makes me laugh even more is BushCo and their decision to disregard the severity of the threat prior to its occurrence. I'm not a conspiracy theorist that believes BushCo was capable of orchestrating 9/11. They are far too comically stupid and incompetent. Appropriate for the nation as a whole, or at least the 50% who voted for them, twice. ~:-P

Ohh nooooo!

Schmennis — Wed, 07 May 2008 16:25:51 -0700

"Thats a crime" - something reprehensible, foolish, or disgraceful

Not a crimial act but still against the rule of law, very true.

However, pressuring a subordinate to have drinks with the implied threat of "mob ties", and recompense for employment to get compliance for social interaction, then plying the subordinate with alcohol to visit your lair and having an influential authority accomplice ply the victim with more alcohol, then once victim is intoxicated, proceed to undress to your under garments, get into bed with victim and proceed to unbutton victims clothing, then riffling through the victims office and desk (witness intimidation) sounds like a criminal acts to me.

You are correct Sexual Harassment is a civil action, but the sexual harassment lead to more serious actions that were crimes. (Such as perjury)

It is unfortunate that the victim was unconscious and unable to provide more evidence that Anthony Guteriez was that perpetrator.

At the very least it is disorderly conduct, and that's a crime.

This will end up in court for sure and Stankoski and Stout deserve every penny they obtain from a civil action.

Rev. Wright supporter?

Schmennis — Wed, 07 May 2008 15:38:11 -0700

OOOOO Juicy,

Pussy?

Wow, no one is a pussy that sits on 5,000 nuclear warheads.
Whoever I vote for (or wins) won't be a pussy....

It's unfortunate that 2974 people had to die for you to get a belly chuckle. I bet you are the life (and death) of parties.

As a loyal U.S. Army Gulf War Combat Medic, Paramedic and formerly sworn Peace Officer that makes me very sad for you that you'd think it was funny.

I think the Taliban are still accepting applications, I will happily pay for you and your cats transportation to Afghanistan if you'd like.

Sexual harassment is not a

JMatthewL — Wed, 07 May 2008 15:08:06 -0700

Sexual harassment is not a crime. It's a civil action.

Some crimes may be classified as sexual harassment, like rape or criminal stalking. In those cases, the perpetrator is not charged with sexual harassment, he is charged with the crime--like rape or criminal stalking.

I was laughing on 9/11.

mvirenicus — Wed, 07 May 2008 12:52:38 -0700

I was laughing on 9/11. You're a pussy, Schmennis. Go vote for another pussy like you have running the country now.

9/11

Schmennis — Wed, 07 May 2008 12:48:10 -0700

Just one more 9/11 event and you will be crying for Hillary to power up the capitalist, oil profiteering, environmental destroying, war machine.....

When everyone else is phoning Jesus you will be phoning Hillary....LOL!

Phone Jesus...

mvirenicus — Wed, 07 May 2008 12:37:59 -0700

You can put Pol Pot into the Ohio AG office. I don't give a shit about Marc Dann. I give a shit about that asshole in the white house who should be tried for treason and hung from the nearest lamp post.

Put your efforts into something useful like achieving the above stated goal. That would be an act of moral value.

Morality....

Schmennis — Wed, 07 May 2008 07:43:33 -0700

Um,

I'm not sure if you've been reading the story but this "MORALITY bullshit" of Dann's lead to a CRIMES being committed....sexual harassment is a CRIME, so is driving under the influence and perjury.

Ethics in America? HAH!

mvirenicus — Wed, 07 May 2008 06:23:52 -0700

you can always become a Green

That is a very real possibility. I've only begun to seriously explore third-party alternatives because I'm tired of business as usual in this state and country. The Dems have proven themselves over and over to be nothing short of Republican-Lite.

I've been researching the CPUSA, but considering that they've viewed themselves primarily as a left-pressure group WITHIN the Democratic Party, I might even reject the idea of supporting them.

This country needs to start operating on a completely different paradigm. The Dems don't answer to that call.

It's just a shame

Greg Roach — Tue, 06 May 2008 21:17:59 -0700

we decide to implode and canabalize our own Party Right In the Middle of a General Cycle." You are so right! This whole cast of characters should have been vetted out. Bad news. Nobody took the time because we wanted the whole executive branch to be Dems for the sake of Control. Can we recover by November?

OH-16: State Senator John Boccieri: AG Dann should resign immediately

Greg Roach — Tue, 06 May 2008 02:04:05 -0700

This whole Attorney General Marc Dann situation gets harder and harder to stomach with each passing day. I'm glad this statement hit my desk before I read it somewhere else.

State Senator John Boccieri: Attorney General Marc Dann should resign Immediately

Today State Senator John Boccieri, Democratic candidate in Ohio's 16th Congressional District, called for Attorney General Marc Dann to resign from office:

"I am outraged that the Attorney General of the state of Ohio has neglected the duty and honor of public service," Senator Boccieri said. "The cronyism and lack of attentiveness to protocol and detail in Attorney General Dann's hiring practices has led us to this tragic moment in Ohio's history. I feel for his wife Alyssa and his children, who must endure the embarrassment he has caused to them, and the people of the state of Ohio.
"We support the ongoing investigation to determine whether any criminal lines have been crossed. However, after combing through the sordid details of the investigation transcripts, it is clear that ethical and moral lines have been disregarded. For this reason, I call upon Marc Dann to resign immediately."

Ohio has been subjected to statement after statement from Dann defending his staff and himself. As a "reasonable person", and that will matter. I have to stand with Senator John Boccieri on this whole case...It is what it is! One doesn't comb transcripts and walk away with some false sense of reality. Personally, I think Ohio's 16th Congressional District Democratic Candidate State Senator Major John Boccieri has done the smart thing...he held back and read the facts before coming to a conclusion and he has distanced himself from the epicenter of the after-shocks yet to come.