Buckeye State Blog - The Ohio "kosola" connection - Comments

Can we talk about the War now? or something else?

JeanLR — Sun, 25 Mar 2007 05:58:14 -0700

Would anyone like to have Sherrod Brown give his seat back?????

It's hard to argue with success, ya know.

I can't believe that you guys are still reading and writing these encyclopedias of minutia about these largely powerless people.

I mean, I'm not saying don't do it or that I don't like it, I just really don't care, and I suspect that, outside of the 8 people here within this post, there's little interest. And geez! You'd think we were dissecting the Fall of Rome.

Why do you guys beat this dead horse? To what purpose?

Is Kos somehow corrupted? Who gives a sht? People are quite capable of reading and discerning what information they will accept and from what sources. They are no less or more "corrupted" than this very blog.

If anyone has issues with how other bloggers are blogging, why not just out-blog them on the substantive issues? Write better, research more, provide deeper content, or at least funnier!

Even the cable news talking heads have moved on to the next issue, surely something else as trivial.

Let's move on already!

Your friend,

Jean.

ps: And a big fat Congratulations to our newest Senator!!

kysqaiqa

DanielRodriguez — Sat, 24 Mar 2007 20:54:04 -0700

htpefwkg

You want Clarkson?

Blogesque — Mon, 26 Jun 2006 17:54:02 -0700

Don't waste your time on A Koswork Orange -- go to the site Clarkson actually runs: http://www.talk2action.org/

Re

AnnDriscoll — Sun, 25 Jun 2006 21:18:34 -0700

Well, you know more than I, Editor.�� But seriously?�� You think there's a causation between Kos and Armstrong's tactics and Hackett's depleted fundraising?�� Hm. ��

Tactics

Ohio2nd — Sun, 25 Jun 2006 17:26:13 -0700

The fact is, the Hackett vs. Brown battle was neither won nor lost in the blogosphere.

From where I was sitting the primary goal of the Brown campaign's scorched blogosphere tactics was to dry up Hackett's online fundraising base. It seems to me that it worked. Hackett's main source of money was Kossacks. Poison that well and the Hackett campaign is crippled. In this they succeeded.

The problem is that Brown is going to be very thirsty over the next few months.

great post

AnnDriscoll — Sun, 25 Jun 2006 11:54:44 -0700

My anger, which had gradually subsided over the past few months, came flooding back to me as I read this. I appreciate this post mainly because it establishes an accurate record of what occurred and then interprets the events according to that record.

For example, you remind us of Armstrong's predictions, all of which turned out to be incorrect. At the time, I thought they were products of misguided, faulty analysis and was willing to consider the possibility that Armstrong- though on Brown's payroll- may have had at least the correct assumptions and facts. But the overwhelming degree to which Armstrong was wrong about nearly everything indicates, as anyone would interpret, a deeper desire he harbored to deceive his readers:

"Has Armstrong transfered his "stock touting" tactics to political races online ? His initial post on Brown seems to indicate he has. He claimed Brown has $3 million on hand. He didn't he had $2 million. He claimed Brown had a large statewide organization. He didn't - as subsequent event pictures show. He claimed he had high name ID due to his previous runs for statewide office - he didn't as current polling show. Armstrong clearly inflated the initial appeal of Brown to his readers at MyDD, as he is alleged to have inflated the prospects of stocks he was touting on raging bull."

The fact is, the Hackett vs. Brown battle was neither won nor lost in the blogosphere. Despite (or perhaps because of) the efforts of Kos and Armstrong, the blogosphere was overwhelmingly in support of Hackett...The Senate Primary was decided out of the public eye in the offices of Chuck Schumer, Chris Redfern, Harry Reid, and Henry Waxman. It was decided over ominous phone conversations to Democratic fundraisers. It was decided during the exchange of damaging war-time pictures disseminated by a Brown staffer. The reason why this matter was- and still is- so enraging is because it was out of our hands from the beginning.

That Kos and Armstrong, two people who we hoped to perceive as outside the Beltway Machine, collaborated with the Machine, is disturbing. And even if they ultimately did not make a difference in the outcome either way, this post clarifies the record on where they stood.

I'll take a stab

Pho — Fri, 23 Jun 2006 14:06:51 -0700

First off, it's hard to know what it means because it's unclear just how much influence Kos has.�� Personally, I think he's living in an influence bubble -- that is, his perceived influence is much higher than his actual influence.

His primary influence thus far has been channelling lots of small contributions to candidates people otherwise wouldn't know or particularly care about, thus puttin them on the map.�� That's much different from making a real difference in�� a presidential primary, say.�� I doubt Kos influences more voters than, say, a moderate-sized labor union.

But let's pretend what Kos says about a candidate for the Democratic nomination for President actually makes some difference.�� And let's assume that Kos's endorsement is contingent on someone getting paid.��

The first reason all this matters is that people who think Kos is the leader of a people power movement will be fooled into endorsing a candidate for nonideological reasons.�� The second reason it matters is that the truth will out and said people power movement will die and agonizing death. The third reason it matters is that the opposition will use the information -- true or not -- against any candidate annointed by Kos.

Which I suppose is why the story needs to be told.�� I'm not sure why anyone would take cues from an egotistical punk whose only claim to fame is getting into the game early, but if they do, they should know what questions are being asked.

Pho,

Muffet — Fri, 23 Jun 2006 13:59:24 -0700

good to see you here.�� I love your stuff.�� It's well written, well reasoned, focused and cogent.�� What more can we ask?

You mean The New Republic

Pho — Fri, 23 Jun 2006 13:56:39 -0700

Not the National Review.�� Kos accused the (mostly liberal) New Republic of being just like the (resolutely conservative) National Review because they dared question his greatness.

Totally agree with what you

Jill — Fri, 23 Jun 2006 12:01:09 -0700

Totally agree with what you say here, Russell.�� But like your last sentence says, no one should be shocked and indeed I'm not.�� I'm also not sure it's really news, since so many people suspect it of going on and also don't think it's okay.

��I also get the retelling good stories.�� I spent 45 minutes on the phone with that Air America producer re-telling a story from start to finish that I've told in parts for the last 20-plus years, because AA thought it was a good story.�� So there you go.

��As for asking unanswerable questions, did I ever tell you about the time I was in the Johnny Carson show's audience, about 1986 or so? My friend and I handed in notecards with a question on them that we wanted to ask Johnny.�� He had a segment in the show where he'd respond to a few.�� He actually pulled mine and it was:

��What is the one unanswered question still looming in your life?

��But he had an answer: Did the Donner party use knives (or something along those lines re: the Donner party being cannibals)

I don't know

staff — Fri, 23 Jun 2006 11:37:52 -0700

You always seem to ask the unanswerable questions. I think telling interesting stories are part of the human condition and the good ones get retold. I think for me the bigger picture is that the big box blogs have become an echo chamber and the variety of ideas that used to pervade has been replaced with a coordinated machine - if you read any of them on any particular day they all echo the same stories in the same way with few exceptions. - and link to each other in an incestuous manner. I think stories like this pull the curtain back a little on that, and some of that light shed on it has revealed that not all the players are in it for idealistic reasons, which shouldn't shock anyone.

Memories....

AmberCat — Fri, 23 Jun 2006 11:13:27 -0700

This Ohio Senate race sure got screwed up, didn't it? One of Kos's lowest and most suspicious moments was front-paging the attack on Tim Russo, surely of no interest or relevance to 99.99999999% of his readers. It was then and still is hard for me to believe that the Brown campaign wasn't complicit, particularly knowing other things that were going on behind the scenes. All that was going on was made worse because Sherrod Brown refused to act with integrity at all stages of the game, including now. He had so many opportunites, so sad to see them blown. Oh well, that'll save me $150 on his little Hillary shindig.

As for Kos, I just see an ego, nothing all that sinister. What I am finding annoying right now is his series of shrill, attacking defenses that involve over-the-top ridicule of the National Review and its TOTAL IRRELEVANCE now that it has attacked HIM. I think a straightforward explanation of how he operates would have been a far more powerful rebuttal than his kicking and shrieking about how marginal TNR is. I wish he'd tone the defensiveness down. But DailyKos has a lot of good stuff, diaries by Fred Clarkson and stuff like that. No one forces you at gunpoint to read diaries or comments by asswipes like Armando.

Good Questions

Ohio2nd — Fri, 23 Jun 2006 10:50:23 -0700

Jill,

Very good questions. I've been thinking about this all day. So what? Who cares? People build relationships. That's business. That's how the world works. How is it different than how everything else works? I really don't know the answer to these questions, and I don't really know what the big picture is.

The main thing that I felt was missing from the dynamic was respect. Respect for the people on the ground. If you want to make some money helping good guys get elected, great. But, make sure that it doesn't appear like your business ventures are interfering with our desire to get quality candidates elected to office.

I'm not privy to private email exchanges. I don't know what truly motivates opinions. I only see what is visible to me online. Money changing hands, and opinions suddenly change. It's hard not to think that we're being played for suckers. I've lived in the real world too long not to realize that money tempers all things.

I need to ask because I want

Jill — Fri, 23 Jun 2006 10:04:15 -0700

I need to ask because I want to understand:�� What does this all mean to anyone who hasn't otherwise consulted with Kos for any purpose at all, or are such people, by that fact alone, not going to be people making noise, making efforts, trying to change the direction of our country?

��I mean, I can sit and read and say, God, so much coordination, manipulation, of ideas and trying to persuade folks.�� Egos at play, people wanting to be powermakers, rainmakers, control freaks.�� I see all that.

But after reading a lot of posts on this topic, I don't get the bigger picture.��

��What exactly is the concern, who needs to be concerned and why?�� Why, as Eric says, should this story not go away?�� Can you help explain the damage you think has occurred - is it the lack of transparency behind what they've done and the knowledge that the candidates have had or may have had of what Kos and Armstrong have done that implicate the candidates as bad folk too?

��I feel like you've created all the dots, but I'm having trouble connecting them (I'll take responsibility for that being just me - but still, I really would like to better understand what you're implicating).

��Thanks.

Great post!

plunderbund — Fri, 23 Jun 2006 07:54:47 -0700

Good to see this out there in such a comprehensive way.�� This story is not, and should not, go away.�� It will only get closer and closer to home.�� Thanks for putting it all together.

"You better get politics or politics will get you" - my grandmother

The Ohio "kosola" connection

staff — Thu, 22 Jun 2006 19:38:59 -0700

Grab a cup of coffee, sit back and relax while I tell you a long story about the Jerome Armstrong/kos connection in Ohio.
The story in the extended for those that are interested