BlogPac and the Kos Crew Want To $ponsor the Ohio 'Sphere
Submitted by Jerid on Fri, 02/16/2007 - 3:40pm.
BlogPac has offered to sponsor this site.
Specifically, they've offered to pay the hosting costs (around $180 apiece) for the Buckeye State Blog and As Ohio Goes, and feature these two sites in their national project. I did not request a grant - BSB was offered one because of the significance we play in Ohio politics. Before we celebrate, it's important to note that this is a tricky situation.
I don't mean to disrespect a gift, but in the interest of transparency we need to talk about the implications this sponsorship could hold. I don't agree with everything that's been pushed nationally through the big box blogs; I saw first hand in 2005 as the national blog crew did things that set off high tensions throughout Ohio (think the Hackett Incident). Since then, the relationship between the Ohio 'sphere and nationals has been rocky. Still, even with its problems, the national blogosphere has a very important role to fill; they bind communities together and accelerate the dissemination of information. Without sites like Kos or MyDD people in California, Wyoming, Hawaii wouldn't find the information we put out throughout the Ohio 'sphere as easily as they do now.
For about the past year and a half Ohio's been more or less cut off from the national scene. This blog gets enormous traffic and under Russell's administration it made significant contributions to the '06 election. Despite that, there's been the perception amongst many in the Ohio sphere that national sites have purposefully avoided aiding or recognizing this site, and many of the sites throughout the Ohio 'sphere, because of our independent nature. A while back Salon wrote a great article that touched on some of those issues (click through the ads, the article specifically mentions BSB). The short version is that there have been allegations, some originating at this site, that the national 'sphere is motivated by the profit margin more than local communities like BSB. The fear is that pursuit of profit makes bloggers beholden to the purse; whoever's controlling the cash might ultimately try to exert influence on the content. Sirota, case in point.
So now the conundrum. I think the big box blogs are onto something huge here - this is exactly the sort of thing the Ohio' sphere discussed a few weekends back at RootsCamp. Organizing throughout the state level and providing a mechanism for low level funding has the potential to create a more agile, dependable network of progressive political sites throughout the states. BlogPac's already organizing sites like BSB throughout the country as part of the blogpac network to recieve blogpac grants. Some of the hottest, most innovative, and connected sites like Raising Kaine (VA), Burnt Orange Report (TX), Left in the West (MT), Calitics (CA) are already part of it. With sites like these on board, the organization is bound to be ridiculously influential and could have the potential to help us aid candidates and officeholders in the Buckeye state to an even greater degree. Turning Blogpac's offer down because of a poor relationship we've held in the past with big boxes could be detrimental to the concept of this project, and could be a disservice to our democratic candidates. But then again, accepting could give the impression that we're lumped in with all the shenanigans that happen outside of our 'sphere. What's worse...it could give the impression that we've lost our independence.
This is a project that excites me...one that I think could benefit Ohio tremendously...it's just touchy. So now you know what was on my mind last night, and what kept me awake at 3:30am.
I've spoken with a lot of those (but not all) that have my trust here at BSB to solicit their input on this. I'd like yours in the comments. I'm gonna put a poll up later, but for now please tell me what your thoughts are.
I am not a fan
Submitted by SusanD on Fri, 02/16/2007 - 5:07pm.
of Kos. I find Markos himself to be entirely too DLC-like for my taste. I'd rather have somebody who has more in common with Howard Dean than with Rahm Emanuel.
Besides, Markos is still *certain* that there was no election tampering in Ohio, and anyone who says there was is a "fraudster". Hello?
"wants to sponsor the Ohio 'sphere"
Submitted by Jill on Fri, 02/16/2007 - 5:39pm.
This phrase sums up why I wouldn't support this liaison: BSB holds a different value to different constituencies center and left of the aisle, as well as for the entire spectrum of voters simply in search of information about Ohio's politics. Even with this blog's "significance" "role to fill" and "enormous traffic" (in quotes because you used those phrases, not because of any snarkiness), sponsoring this blog is not the same as sponsoring the Ohio 'sphere. And if Blogpac thinks that's what it's getting, and you believe that that's what you're serving up, then I would venture to say that you're changing the significance, the role and the traffic pattern.
Jerid, if that is what you want for this blog, that is your decision. But I would urge you, as someone who refers and filters and questions and contributes to the community that's been built here, to not make the mistake of equating BSB and AOG as "the Ohio 'sphere."
You work hard at times to sound and be humble - that's my sense. That's part of what makes this blog work - even Russell knew when to change the tone or at least lighten up or move on. The entire sum of the Ohio political blogosphere extends far beyond the significance, role and traffic of this blog. This blog deserves respect. But in deciding what liaisons to make in the bigger pond, I can't emphasize enough what a collaborative effort - even if the collaborators are simply silent readers (who are still voters) - BSB seems to be. When you call it "the Ohio 'sphere" - well, I find that alienating.
If those seeking liaisons and access to the significance, role and traffic of BSB and AOG also seek an inroad to the rest of Ohio's voters? Well - what does their desire to sponsor you actually say, mean, do or imply? Those attributes - significance, role and traffic - make it a target for influence.
Very very very dicey situation. But maybe very clearcut to others.
Good luck, whatever you choose. And thanks for soliciting opinions.
Come now Jill
Submitted by Jerid on Sat, 02/17/2007 - 4:49am.
Your comments are always welcome; and most of the time I'm excited to see your perspective on a situation. While I don't always agree with you, I think you're generally "on the ball". That said, in this case you're making a few assumptions and getting carried away.
I never said BSB was the only blog that makes up the Ohio 'sphere. Far from it actually, I said that "BlogPac and the Kos Crew want to sponsor the Ohio 'sphere". Did I follow that up with "and BSB and AOG entail the Ohio sphere in its entirety"? No, I did not. That statement leaves it open ended. Blogpac offers were made to Ohio sites because they'd like to help blogs in this state and get a foothold for their network here...for all I know they want to sponsor every site in the Ohio sphere. The point is sponsoring Ohio blogs...that entails sponsoring the sphere in part, right? I guess I could have made my title "Blogpac and the Kos Crew Want to Partially Sponsor the Ohio 'Sphere"...but I do have a word limitation for my headlines, and I thought I was clear enough in my post (and in the past) that I do not have an over inflated ego regarding this site. We're getting nit-picky here Jill. This is not the Ohio sphere...and I've never said it was.
Also, further in the post I stated:
"Despite that, there's been the perception amongst many in the Ohio sphere that national sites have purposefully avoided aiding or recognizing this site, and many of the sites throughout the Ohio 'sphere, because of our independent nature."
Yet again - no reference to AOG and BSB being the sphere in its entirety. I'm sorry that's the perception you got - but frankly I'm a little confused why you jumped to that assumption. The best that I can figure is that my references to BSB's relevance and/or traffic were irritating. If that's the case, know that I don't like tooting this site's own horn; I made those statements to try and put the blogpac offer in perspective and show the history of this site, and other sites, with national blogs.
I'm a fan of 'Billy's reference to "The Best Damn 'Sphere In the Land." Ohio blogs fill a wide variety of roles and we've got a lot of talent. I've recognized your talent here before (which folks, Jill runs circles around most of us in the ohio 'sphere when it comes to many policy issues) along with the talents of others. I know this isn't the only show in town and I've shown that in the past. Please don't misportray my view otherwise.
Thank you for the other kind words re: the situation. It's a tough call...part of the point of this post is that the community's view matters here because BSB is just part of the 'sphere, and ultimately this affects all of us. Dicey.
Bad news bears.
Confidence and hubris are not the same thing
Submitted by Jill on Sat, 02/17/2007 - 11:04am.
What you've posted here, Jerid, I read to be too personal a response by you, about me, to want to respond back publicly. The posts and comments I've left over the last 20 months or so, whereever I've left them, rarely if ever constitute defenses of myself as a person and my motives, and I'm not going to do that now. I have confidence that people to whom I'm familiar - through whatever venue - can decide for themselves as to whether 1) my perceptions about your blog post title, "Blogpac and the Kos crew want to sponsor the Ohio 'sphere" are wacko or spot-on and 2) my comment is the result of me being irritated by BSB's significance and traffic.
I appreciate and trust your compliments, but I have no ruffled feathers that need to be smoothed, Jerid. I've maintaind the same line for months and months about blog authors making decisions for themselves and allowing readers and participants to decide how the decisions affect the product. Nothing I've said is new or different because it's you or BSB.
But you see, Jerid, this sentence of yours about how ultimately the choice made for BSB affects us all just does not resonate for me. Now, I respect that you may feel that way, and others may feel that way. I don't feel that way. I just don't. The decision you make will affect, once again, how the national sites treat Ohio blogs.
But why are we caring so much about how they treat us? Why is that so important? As I wrote on my blog last night, I'm proud of being seen as independent. That is EXACTLY what I want. But it's what I want - it's FINE if it's not what you or anyone else wants. I WANT the national sites to see me as independent - because there are some national sites that LIKE and are attracted to that indepedence. I, obviously, am far less interested in sites that are NOT attracted to independence but rather, something else - I don't know what you want to call the opposite of being independent when it comes to blogs.
And so, for me, that is why, if it were me, and you've solicited opinions, I know what I would do. But I am not you, I am not BSB, I am just me. I treasure, value and love being shunned for being independent. And I haven't wavered from that since the first day I started blogging, and of course long before that in many other choices I've made over my more than half over life (OMG).
Jill
Submitted by Jerid on Sat, 02/17/2007 - 2:49pm.
I'm proud of being independent as well. I'd wager that other recipients of blogpac grants throughout the nation haven't been as forthcoming as I, or sought input. That's in the interest of transparency and independence.
Re: your comment on the Ohio 'sphere. Sorry - still disagree with you there. Read the post in context.
Last thing first
Submitted by Jill on Sat, 02/17/2007 - 4:46pm.
I can agree to disagree. I stick with my original reading of that title, and accept that you didn't and don't see it that way. Last effort on persuading you or anyone else otherwise: think of how we feel when we read MSM headlines that hook us into reading an article. What do we think we're about to read versus what is there for us to actually read? Even in context, Jerid, although possibly VERY unintended on your part, I read the same equation there. You've worked to clarify your position and I believe you believe that position. However, I'd put money on Blogpac or any other out of Ohio larger entity banking on the hope that people outside Ohio, and maybe even inside Ohio, will actually equate whomever Blogpac or other big boxes might choose to support as The Voice of Ohio. Of course here we all know that's not true - we are indeed Whoville - where every voice makes a difference and one less voice will be noticed as an absence.
Still - that post title...but okay - enough. I trust your sincerity in saying that my reading doesn't reflect your intention.
Re: being proud of your independence. I know this gets old, I apologize in advance, but then, as a mom-type, I have to say: go with that. Figure out what risks you're willing to take and how revocable or irrevocable you believe accepting certain liaisons will be. Then go with it.
And the only other thing I will add: it's not like BSB is going anywhere or that there are political blogs in Ohio that draw what BSB draws or does what it does the way it does it. Which is to say, another entity may very well come along to court it - and maybe the configuration will be more appealing. Maybe not. Perhaps you can defer your decision until later in the 2008 cycle. Why not? And why not take George up on the offer (which I'd be happy to contribute to) and think about other configurations through which Ohioans can amplify what we've got in Ohio?
I'm sure you're not, but I feel like it's the appropriate time to say, Are you sorry you asked yet? :)
Not to be dismissive, but...
Submitted by bonobo on Fri, 02/16/2007 - 5:43pm.
I can't think of a single good reason to take the money. Shake us all down for the hosting if you have to. The big box blogs need the local/regional spheres much more than we need the nationals. I think having a working relationship with other state-level blogs is a good idea, and I can even see where blogPAC might be the most sensible entity to foster such a network. I don't think 'sponsorship' is the right way to go about it.
What's 'HI' in the middle and fenced on both sides by the elite?
Submitted by Demetrius on Fri, 02/16/2007 - 6:37pm.
How much will it cost us to NOT have them sponsor BSB? The consolidation of power and influence that is starting to happen and the "mainstreaming" of voices is antithetical to the "People Power" inherent in/on the Blogosphere. I know... It's always tough for the Mom and Pop stores to hold out when Wal*Mart wants to buy them out. But, I'll shop *extra* if it helps!
Transparency is the key
Submitted by Pho on Fri, 02/16/2007 - 9:11pm.
And the one thing I haven't heard is what strings, if any, are attached to the money. Presumably if BSB suddenly lurched to the right BlogPAC would pull its support, but do they apply any more specific criteria that "lefty?" If BlogPAC agrees to sponsor BSB as is, nothing is lost but the perception of independence.
Of course independence counts for a lot. The comment that "I find Markos himself to be entirely too DLC-like for my taste." and Demetrius's comment directly above mine illustrate the problem. I shudder to think what the politics look like of someone who finds Kos too DLC -- I find him too knee-jerk antiDLC myself. But that's the point. A lot of people dislike the establishment qua the establishment. The national blogs started as anti-establishment and now are establishment basically in perception (theirs and others) only.
So, it's up to you but you owe it to your readers to keep them up to date about whatever communications you have with BlogPAC that may affect content.
Finally, I think Jill's comment was right on.
Don't be scared
Submitted by Renee in Ohio on Fri, 02/16/2007 - 9:57pm.
I shudder to think what the politics look like of someone who finds Kos too DLC
Please don't shudder--I'm really not that scary. Neither is SusanD, who has blogged with me for a long time.
But see bryan's comment in this thread, regarding your perception of Kos being knee-jerk anti-DLC.
witness kos' support of a dlc candidate after railing against the dlc for a year. the difference -- money.
Lately I've been busy documenting some of the issues many of us have with Kos, by the way.
Hey, Pho
Submitted by SusanD on Fri, 02/16/2007 - 9:59pm.
Jerid knows exactly what my politics look like. But if you shudder to think what they look like, simple solution. Don't look.
Was surprised
Submitted by Renee in Ohio on Fri, 02/16/2007 - 10:06pm.
I remember Pho from last year, and liked a lot of what he had to say. I'm pretty sure I remember him writing a glowing endorsement for Subodh, who we also supported. So, yeah, I was taken aback by such a judgemental comment.
Susan D
Submitted by Shad Planking on Sat, 02/17/2007 - 12:29am.
Susan has great politics! She also makes wonderful meatballs, some kind of secret recipe. Susan is wonderful!
its worth considering
Submitted by 2010 Buckeye on Fri, 02/16/2007 - 10:31pm.
but be wary. the whole point of blogs is their independence. consolidation is why these things popped up in the first place
Well, crap
Submitted by Pho on Fri, 02/16/2007 - 11:41pm.
Friday of a sucky week is always a bad time to be commenting. My comment about Susan was flip and I apologize.
I react strongly to the DLC thing mostly because I hate litmus tests. There are good people in the DLC and there are jerks. They have ideas I like, they have ideas I think are garbage and they have a whole lot of ideas that are the beginnings of good conversations. One tic in dKos that drove me nuts and drove me off the site was "X is DLC, so I don't support X." Whether X = candidate or X = issue, I can't stand the equation either way. It's ad hominem, it's anti-intellectual and it's, frankly, judgemental.
If Kos himself has switched back after beating the "DLC Is Evil" drum, bad on him. But his politics, to the extent they are driven by something other than personal expedience, are more in keeping with the anti-DLC crowd on his site. There's plenty to criticize Kos about, but can we please ditch using DLC as an all-purpose indictment of insufficient progressivity? Just a thought.
We now rejoin our discussion of BlogPAC, already in progress.
Point taken
Submitted by Renee in Ohio on Sat, 02/17/2007 - 12:03am.
"X is DLC, so I don't support X." Whether X = candidate or X = issue, I can't stand the equation either way.
I understand. Whatever he's supporting at a given moment, and I'm inclined to think it will be whatever can gain power, money, and authority for him, I don't think Markos is very good with nuance. (I know John Kerry spoiled that word for some people, but I can't think of another one right now.)
By the way, there are some (in my opinion) really good comments about the problem with Kos in response to the Booman Tribune version of the story I posted here earlier.
You could also check out what skippy has to say about napoleon syndrome by proxy.
(The picture is mine, not skippy's but I thought it fit here, and maybe could lighten the mood. 
)
Renee please tell us you get rewarded
Submitted by Jill on Sat, 02/17/2007 - 9:29am.
For your excellent brain somewhere, somehow. You are so good with the visual stuff. Great image (that's NOT a comment on how fitting or anything - just that it made me smile - I needed that - thanks).
Did I read right..$180? We can raise that standing on our heads
Submitted by Brutus on Fri, 02/16/2007 - 11:55pm.
Kos, on the other hand, censors (used deliberately) stories about Ohio 2004 election fraud and anything regarding 9/11 except puff pieces upholding the 9/11 Commission report.
Nuff said.
Yeah, Jerid
Submitted by redhorse on Sat, 02/17/2007 - 2:14am.
I can raise that in a phone call.
If you want to be part of BlogPac and what it stands for, then dive in. If you are wary, remember that total is nothing.
I'm hesitant to support this: I wonder about BSB's indepednece.
If you want to be part of BlogPac and what it stands for, then dive in. If you are wary, remember that total is nothing.
I'm hesitant to support this: I wonder about BSB's indepednece.
do it anyway.
Submitted by redenemy on Sat, 02/17/2007 - 2:18am.
raise it. Everybody that's been saying they can raise $180 or what not, excellent. We've still got to raise money to send Jerid to New Hampshire for the summer... let's get cracking. Jerid, do you want to set up an ActBlue acct or what?
This is Staff's world:
Submitted by redenemy on Sat, 02/17/2007 - 1:07am.
he just let's us blog in it now and again.
Which is to say, really, the person who (I think) pays the hosting bills has yet to weigh in.
I tend to agree with the above concerns: Really, I don't think it's worth sacrificing the integrity of the project here to take the money. As Jill said, "Very very very dicey situation". If Jerid felt like that might be the case, than I'd advise him not to do it. But I trust Jerid's gut, and I don't think he would take it if he felt it would compromise his goals for the blog.
Now, here's the flip side; Staff's been ponying up on bsb's bills I believe, and if Jerid can pay him back by letting these kids link to him, Staff would want him too. Jerid gets his well deserved recognition, Staff gets his bills paid, and the big boxers can have their ego stroked.
As a lot of folks have said, $180 isn't a whole lot of cash: These guys aren't buying the farm. And anyone that thinks that hosting fees will suddenly make everyone play nice is deluding themselves. Staff famously made the point that if Blackwell wanted to advertise on the site, he'd sell him the space... and that check sure wouldn't make Staff push Blackwell. Same rules apply. Jerid isn't going to suddenly sell his soul and start shilling for Kos, nor is anyone else here. Jerid won't let this money affect his content or his integrity, and clearly he's telling us all this so he can be transparent.
In Sum: it's not a lot of money. I don't think it's a fantastic move, but it won't hurt anything. More importantly Staff would want him to, so go for it.
It's all about the links, baby...
Submitted by Demetrius on Sat, 02/17/2007 - 1:53am.
Paying the bills is just the sugar that helps it go down. I suspect the "medicine" is the links to and from the Big Box Blogs. If BSB gets the kind of attention that makes *them* seek out a relationship *they* are looking to gain a LOT in traffic back to their sites. (and, therefore, more page views to sell ads with) My inclination is that if they *want* you - you don't *need* them. If BSB is going to sell out they should get a lot more for their souls than hosting fees.
as Jill once said,
Submitted by redenemy on Sat, 02/17/2007 - 2:01am.
who exactly are these illustrious theys? look, Blogpac isn't even run by Kos (although yes, I'm sure he runs it, just like Hoffman runs bsb). Honestly, I don't know our traffic numbers, but I'm willing to bet they're not even going to make a blip for the most read site on the internet. Traffic isn't generated through links, it's generated through conflict, conversation, and quality coverage. We've got plenty of all three. So do "they". that $180 doesn't change a whole lot in my world view. More importantly, no one said Jerid had to link to the big boxes. And if they want to link to us, we suddenly become the biggest voice in Ohio... I'm having a hard time getting to ginned up about the whole thing really.
*They*... You know... The Shadows
Submitted by Demetrius on Sat, 02/17/2007 - 2:31am.
If the issue is just over $180 in hosting fees BSB should put up a PayPal link. (unless I'm missing it) I'll kick in $20 right now. The Big Boys can still link to BSB if they want to be part of a network with Ohio blogs. I'd just as soon their money wasn't an issue, though.
that's funny
Submitted by redenemy on Sat, 02/17/2007 - 2:41am.
I like the title. I think you're right, we should put up a paypal link and pay for some of these things. help out a bit. I'd rather the money not be an issue either, and I think Jerid agrees (I think he's more interested in getting the incoming traffic from the big boys, might be wrong though). I think they see it as part of a project (get as many community blogs in as many states in the network). Like you, I don't see as we get a whole lot out of it, my point is mostly, it's an piddly sum and it's not going to change the state of bsb so let's not sweat Jerid out on this one... Jerid clearly wants to be above board and transparent, and involve everyone in the decision. I think that's admirable and I trust him to make the right decision. I'm trying to make space for him if he decides to take it. That's all.
Good Concept
Submitted by Demetrius on Sat, 02/17/2007 - 2:58am.
I think the idea of a network of blogs across the country is great. And, if some of the smaller blogs could be bouyed by the popularity of sites like DKos then the investment in them by people who have diaried and attracted readership has paid dividends. My concern is that they don't try to use their power to control the message that gets out on the smaller blogs. This is antithetical to People Power. This is why the blogroll purge makes me suspicious that they may be more interested in helping their bottom line rather than the Cause. I'll gladly pony up part of BSB's hosting fees if it helps it stay independent of the influence of a new "moneyed elite".
with you all the way
Submitted by redenemy on Sat, 02/17/2007 - 3:04am.
and if Jerid ever seems anywhere near selling out, we'll call him on it. But somehow, I don't think we've ever got to worry about that...
I don't begrudge Kos (or
Submitted by Demetrius on Sat, 02/17/2007 - 1:46am.
I don't begrudge Kos (or anyone) making money. I don't begrudge him running his blog the way he wants. I don't begrudge him seeking power and influence for himself. I *do* begrudge him doing those things (things like the blogroll purge - which are *decidedly* un-progressive and undemocratic) and positioning himself as a leader in this community/movement.
The value of DKos (the reason why he can ask what he gets for ads) is in it's position as a nexus of the Progressive blogosphere. For him to claim not to position himself as a leader is BS belied by the ad depicting him as the *only* one who knows how to kick that donkey and get it moving. Kos' personal politics are of less importance to me than what freedom he allows on "his" blog. He may, or may *not* be on my side on whatever issue. I don't care. The value of the blogosphere is in the voice granted to ordinary people to say whatever the hell they want - regardless of what the moneyed and powerful think. When those voices are silenced or filtered out of concern for ad revenues or loss of power/influence for the blog owner then that blog stops being useful to the Progressive movement. It's becomes just another mainstream media tool of the establishment power brokers. (Those who can afford $9000/week for a blog ad...) So, I'm not concerned that he is, or isn't DLC. I am concerned that *any* person or faction gets enough power that they can control what others can say/hear. I worry if he becomes so powerful that I *have* to care what he thinks, or hope he is on my side.
It was the accretion of small voices that created the Black Hole that is DKos today. People went there because that's where people were going. If you had something to say you went there (because that's where people were to say it to.) It could have happened to *any* site. He got lucky. Now, that gravity well has collapsed to the singularity that is Kos' fame/ego. He continues to draw attention (and money) to himself - fed by the weight of many small voices that can't escape the pull. And, he is not allowing any light to escape to "lesser" gatherings of voices in the ether.
I think
Submitted by redenemy on Sat, 02/17/2007 - 1:55am.
that you meant to post this over here? Really I don't know why we're all so worried about what Kos does with his blog roll or what not. I certainly appreciate Renee's point, and think she's correct in pointing out the irony of certain actions, but generally, I don't know why we're talking about him that much. Just does more to build up his reputation and image as a power broker. Ignore him, and he goes away...
I think
Submitted by Demetrius on Sat, 02/17/2007 - 2:33am.
I think I started to say one thing and ended up saying something else that - you're probably right - fits better in that other thread.
no problem
Submitted by redenemy on Sat, 02/17/2007 - 2:44am.
by the way, I don't know as I've seen you around here, so welcome, and if you are Renee's Demetrius a very warm welcome indeed.
Yup... That's me.
Submitted by Demetrius on Sat, 02/17/2007 - 3:04am.
I don't tend to blog much. As, when I do, I end up spending *way* too much time on it. :) (Like now... I should be in bed!) But, I felt compelled to chime in.
please,
Submitted by redenemy on Sat, 02/17/2007 - 3:08am.
by all means, new folks are always welcome, and we hope you'll stop by more often. (Jerid, how am I doing on this new welcoming committee thing?)
Did you give him one of these yet
Submitted by Jerid on Sat, 02/17/2007 - 5:01am.
Red, it's standard protocol to give one of these to the new posters. Fer chrissake, did ya even read the BSB manual I gave ya?
man..
Submitted by redenemy on Sat, 02/17/2007 - 12:22pm.
I'm crap at welcoming committee stuff too now? Stupid hypercritical site, everybody just wants to point out what you've done wrong (did you give one to Toledo Mike too? Cause he should get one)...
dieses ist wirklich interessant
Submitted by aberrant equation on Sat, 02/17/2007 - 2:55am.
will someone please wake me up when this discussion is over?
oddly enough
Submitted by redenemy on Sat, 02/17/2007 - 3:06am.
I can hear the sarcasm in your german.
Sure... We'll wake you up.
Submitted by Demetrius on Sat, 02/17/2007 - 3:06am.
Or, maybe... We'll just put your hand in a bowl of warm water... ;)
uninvited grammar lesson
Submitted by aberrant equation on Sat, 02/17/2007 - 3:13am.
The possessive for "it" is "its"- for example: its independence or its position.
"it's", on the other hand, is a contraction of "it is" or sometimes "it has".
wonderful
Submitted by aberrant equation on Sat, 02/17/2007 - 3:19am.
Great.... now I just urinated all over my Blue Book of Grammar and Punctuation.
Thanks Demetrius.
Buckeyestateblog
Submitted by marcvstraianvs on Sat, 02/17/2007 - 9:36am.
My opinion is basically do what you will, as long as you can keep your content and opinions your own. If you feel compromised in the ability to do that by accepting the money, by all means turn it down. I personally really like reading a site with views of Ohio written by Ohioans, and wouldn't like to see that compromised.
Marcvs
Submitted by redenemy on Sat, 02/17/2007 - 12:25pm.
thank you for saying what I wanted to so much more concisely.
p.s. cute name ref.
My worry is actually that
Submitted by bonobo on Sat, 02/17/2007 - 10:42am.
Kos or Armstrong or whoever is asked to "speak for the blogosphere" and is identified as the creator or coordinator or whatever of this BlogPac network which includes BSB. It's bad enough that Kos is assumed to speak for everyone who's ever posted a diary on his site.
If the cost of hosting is an issue
Submitted by GeorgeNemeth on Sat, 02/17/2007 - 3:45pm.
I'm offering for Meet.The.Bloggers* to host BSB and AOG. If you're interested, Cindy or Jerid, drop me an email.
Still the classiest guy in the room
Submitted by redenemy on Sat, 02/17/2007 - 3:57pm.
George Nemeth everybody, still the classiest guy in the room.
mtb and their radical agenda?!
Submitted by bryan on Sat, 02/17/2007 - 4:52pm.
jerid, you can't become beholden to mtb and their radical agenda of hate! don't give in! they're clevelanders, damn it, clevelanders!
*snark attack over; sorry, things were too nice around here, well, except for pho and jerid beating up on everyone*
that sounds like a much better deal. i vote for mtb to host.
What concernes me
Submitted by dpotts on Sat, 02/17/2007 - 4:04pm.
is that by accepting this money you'd allow the national bloggers to write their (small) checks and post these links that say "hey look, were working with Ohio" and move on on the next state. If you refused this money they might actually have to get their hands dirty and work with Ohio.
Have you considered all the consequences of this decision? What makes this site so great is that it's mainly Ohioans talking about Ohio. If these big box blogs integrate BSB into some kind of network of state blogs this might change. It's quite possible that the majority of comments could come from people that have never even been to Ohio, much less lived here. Also keep in mind that the loss of appearance of independence can be just as damaging as the loss of independence itself.
As people have already said, $180 isn't really a lot of money. If you really need help paying the bills there are other options available like donations or more ads. If BSB could become self sufficient it would be far more beneficial in the long run.
Put me down as a resounding NO
Submitted by Ryan on Sun, 02/18/2007 - 9:01am.
I can't stand the big box blogs in general and Kos in particular. I think this would be one step toward having these guys dictate what gets put on the front page and what gets discussed on BSB. If its a matter of money I am sure that more than enough people would be willing to donate to the cause. Heck, I'll contribute some money to keep BSB up and running if it means not having Kos looking over our shoulders every time we post. Blogs used to be about independence. This kind of deal is anathema to all that blogs stand for.
seriously
Submitted by redenemy on Sun, 02/18/2007 - 11:05am.
What the fuck? Do you really thing that for $180 Jerid would sell his soul and suddenly become slave to the big box blogs? Do you really have this little faith in young master Jerid and his ability to make up his own mind on issues?
Moreover, this whole, blogs about their independence bit: I'd hate to insult of you experts on blogging out there, who want to talk about what blogs are all about, but what if Jerid took George up on his offer? Would you all scream holy hell about Jerid giving up his independence than? That would give George a kill switch on all operations, and even more power over this blog than someone writting a check. Do you think that Jerid would suddenly never say a bad word about George (not that he'd have any reason too, but you get the point)? The guys on the MTB ad network, are they anathema to what the blogs stand for? They're taking money from a coalition of folks. Big deal.
Jerid, ignore the handwringing. Do what you think is right.
Red
Submitted by bonobo on Sun, 02/18/2007 - 1:12pm.
Somebody needs to be arguing against those who are weighing in against the proposal, so I'm glad that you're doing it. And you're certainly right that worrying about the site content among folks here displays a pretty insulting lack of trust in Jerid. I disagree, however, if you think any and all reservations about this are "hand-wringing." This site, and in particular Jerid, will be called upon to "prove" independence time and again. It won't be fair, it often won't even be relevant, but it will happen. These attacks will either be responded to or ignored, with all the fun consequences of either course of action. It's the sort of downside you just accept and deal with when you're committed to the positive outcomes of an action. What, exactly, are the positive outcomes we're looking at here? What are the negatives of turning down the money?
I don't think this is a question of right and wrong. It wouldn't be wrong to take the sponsorship, and it wouldn't be "right," either. It's just a question of pragmatics. If Blogpac offered to sponsor my blog, I might very well take it. I'm new enough and small enough that what I've got to gain in terms of widespread readership and legitimacy is a lot more than I've got to lose. BSB is not in that position. There's more to lose than to gain. Just my two cents.
Bonobo
Submitted by redenemy on Sun, 02/18/2007 - 2:10pm.
Fine point. In part, what I'm doing is saying, look, it's Jerid's blog, and in someway those of us that don't pay the bills need to back up. I'm creating the space for him to make his decision, which he politely asked us to be involved in. And frankly, it's our credibility as well (those of us that are Front Pagers or whatever we are). Shoot, the implication seems to be that if Jerid takes this money every poster here will suddenly have to answer to Kos. It's bullshit.
I think you're absolutely right in saying that it's not a right or wrong question. I think bsb gains the access to a much wider readership, the big boxes can have thier ego stroking. Fine. I'm less than worried about it, because I think we will all continue on exactly as we have before.
That said, I'm going to consistantly challenge anyone that says Jerid taking this money would mean he would let "these guys dictate what gets put on the front page" or would take away his independence. In fact, I welcome that fight. In the words of our president, "bring it on."
Jerid taking this money
Submitted by MarkJablonski on Sun, 02/18/2007 - 4:28pm.
would mean he would let these guys dictate what gets put on the front page and would take away his independence. *Just kidding Red* Seriously though, I guess it all comes down to perceptions, and how Jerid wants BSB to be perceived. As I am not paying for hosting, I don't have much of a right to tell him what to do. Although, I don't think I'd be alone in saying that I'd gladly shell out a few bucks to keep this thing running. When it comes down to it, I'm pretty sure that Jerid takes all of this pretty seriously, and I trust him to do what he thinks is best. I will stand behind whatever decision he makes.
I kinda like the fact that
I kinda like the fact that this blog is populated by Ohioans who participate in whatever ways we do in political life in our communities, as activists, bloggers, elected officials, volunteers, or just as good citizens, and I wonder how this "national" presence would influence the impact BSB will have going forward~ I'm quite ignorant as to the cost in cash and time it takes to maintain a blog like this, so I wonder, Why fix it if it ain't broke?
On the Blogpac site it mentions as criteria "Must have a lefty political orientation", which I guess this blog would qualify, but it's a weird standard. What's "lefty"? After all, for example, there are several republicans who are anti-war, and mirror "lefty" positions on trade etc.
"Without sites like Kos or MyDD people in California, Wyoming, Hawaii wouldn't find the information we put out throughout the Ohio 'sphere as easily as they do now. "~ I found this site originally from googling about Ohio, I'm confident that anyone with internet access can find it as easily~ I have a hard time finding anything on the big blog sites, when I look there I just see hundreds of non sequiturs and miscellaneous commentary, and to me, often it looks like a mish-mash of venting.
If the money is a small factor, and as I said, I have zero idea about that kind of thing, but if possible, I think it is nice to be a primary source for those kinds of blogs to quote, rather than as an instrument that will play whatever tune they're whistling at the moment. The "Hackett thing" you cite is a great example. Anything written there was an echo coming from the primary source, BSB.
"national sites have purposefully avoided aiding or recognizing this site, and many of the sites throughout the Ohio 'sphere, because of our independent nature."
I like the "independent nature" and if that makes national site avoid recognizing this site, I do really think that the quality content presented here, and the quality of debate and discussion (and humor:-)will get them to recognize on the blog's merits despite, and in time because of, it's independence.
My feeling is that the strength of this site, the way it has grown and where it began, is due in large measure to the fact that people are speaking from the heart, not to win points but to honestly find common ground where we can agree, to inform, to learn, and to try to convince, or be convinced, by our fellow citizens.
Would any of that change? Would the change be better? And is it inevitable? Perhaps it's just the way it will go~ vamos a ver, ciao all :-)